St. Louis and Duquesne (OR Detroit Mercy)

[yorost]

Nice editorial on how the Big East and other conferences like the Big Ten are more than just athletics...

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130707/NEWS0802/707079960

Another reason I like Richmond (or even Davidson) to be the potential partner for St. Louis if 12 happens. Very good schools, and expands the conference footprint down south towards the heart of the ACC.

St. Louis and Dayton fit best. VCU also fits but would be the lowest ranked national school (not by a lot, though). Davidson or Richmond would be a quality academic add that doesn't fit. They're not worse, but if it weren't for sports you wouldn't be seeing them pop up in the same conversations as our schools.

[redmen9194]

Nova will never step up to FSB football.

St Johns will never make it to a final four.

Ok, never is a long time. Neither will happen in the next few years. But both have a chance of happening someday. Although St Johns odds are longer.

St. John's will make it to a final four before Nova moves up to FBS football and I even venture to say before Nova makes another Final Four. Don't take it so personal Dave, but to suggest that Nova is going to move up to FBS football make zero sense at this point. I know the Big East pulled the rug out on them two years ago which was a totally bush move by the football schools after telling them they would get in. Nova could have moved up anyway and played in a non BCS league but chose not to. So why would they opt for that now? To play in the AAC and get less money than staying in the Big East? It's not going to happen. Just like UConn is not being invited to the Big East. You Nova fans have got to jump on board here - you guys keep looking for the negative. We do not need any of the football schools - we are going to make more money than we ever would have in the Big East even if the billion dollar ESPN contract was approved, Have faith Dave - we are in the holy land of hoops!

[Bostonspider]

St. Louis and Dayton fit best. VCU also fits but would be the lowest ranked national school (not by a lot, though). Davidson or Richmond would be a quality academic add that doesn't fit. They're not worse, but if it weren't for sports you wouldn't be seeing them pop up in the same conversations as our schools.

Not sure what you mean by this. Richmond, Villanova and Georgetown are often mentioned in the same academic circles. PC, Creighton, XU and Butler are similar if not as highly academically ranked. Davidson has an even better academic reputation, though is more truely a small liberal arts college, while Richmond has a Law School and Business School.

[NovaSpider]

St. Louis and Dayton fit best. VCU also fits but would be the lowest ranked national school (not by a lot, though). Davidson or Richmond would be a quality academic add that doesn't fit. They're not worse, but if it weren't for sports you wouldn't be seeing them pop up in the same conversations as our schools.

Not sure what you mean by this. Richmond, Villanova and Georgetown are often mentioned in the same academic circles. PC, Creighton, XU and Butler are similar if not as highly academically ranked. Davidson has an even better academic reputation, though is more truely a small liberal arts college, while Richmond has a Law School and Business School.

I agree with you here. Richmond has a very good reputation and is definitely mentioned in the same breath as Villanova. Georgetown probably has a better rep than both of them, but all three are in the conversation. RU is probably more well respected in DC-Boston corridor than most of the schools in the conference (rightly or wrongly). I know nothing about Davidson, except that it is way out of the geographic footprint of the league (neither good nor bad in my opinion).

I would love to see Richmond get the nod, albeit for the selfish reason of being able to see a Nova game live each year. Unfortunately while academically they do match up, athletically I don't think they do.

[Dave]

Nova will never step up to FSB football.

St Johns will never make it to a final four.

Ok, never is a long time. Neither will happen in the next few years. But both have a chance of happening someday. Although St Johns odds are longer.

St. John's will make it to a final four before Nova moves up to FBS football and I even venture to say before Nova makes another Final Four. Don't take it so personal Dave, but to suggest that Nova is going to move up to FBS football make zero sense at this point. .... Just like UConn is not being invited to the Big East... We do not need any of the football schools...

I agree that Nova will not move FB up to FBS at this point. Not at this point, and not in the next few years. Nova screwed up its last opportunity and it will take the next President and next AD to have a reasonable shot. But to say "never"... silly.

On UConn, we don't need them. We would just be much better with them. I have been to dozens of Big East MSG games and I'm not convinced that the Garden will be filled by C7 or the Newbie 3. UConn boosts or NYC footprint. We don't need them, but we would be much better with them.

UConn may or may not happen, but I think Val has the reputation for having a good business sense and being a strategic thinker. I think she will weigh the risks, mitigate them, and find a way to land UConn diplomatically. Compare UConn hoops to the other programs kicked around here SLU, Dayton, VCU, Richmond, Detroit, Davidson... they are not even close to UConn's level. If we add more to the conference it should be at the top end, not the bottom end. I agree to disagree, and wait and see...

[redmen9194]

On the Nova football move, I think it was more of Nova getting screwed than them blowing it. From what I understand they were ready to make the move up just to have the rug pulled out from under them at the very last minute by the Big East. That was probably the biggest screw job in league history after UConn investing in its program for the conference just to have every football member walk out on them..

[yorost]

St. Louis and Dayton fit best. VCU also fits but would be the lowest ranked national school (not by a lot, though). Davidson or Richmond would be a quality academic add that doesn't fit. They're not worse, but if it weren't for sports you wouldn't be seeing them pop up in the same conversations as our schools.

Not sure what you mean by this. Richmond, Villanova and Georgetown are often mentioned in the same academic circles. PC, Creighton, XU and Butler are similar if not as highly academically ranked. Davidson has an even better academic reputation, though is more truely a small liberal arts college, while Richmond has a Law School and Business School.

I agree with you here. Richmond has a very good reputation and is definitely mentioned in the same breath as Villanova. Georgetown probably has a better rep than both of them, but all three are in the conversation. RU is probably more well respected in DC-Boston corridor than most of the schools in the conference (rightly or wrongly). I know nothing about Davidson, except that it is way out of the geographic footprint of the league (neither good nor bad in my opinion).

I would love to see Richmond get the nod, albeit for the selfish reason of being able to see a Nova game live each year. Unfortunately while academically they do match up, athletically I don't think they do.

As I said, I wasn't calling them worse academically, just the least similar to us from the candidates. I'm not picking on their education, at all. ...and, yes, they can get talked about with our schools, which is certainly possible of any university or college. I was trying to make a point that they do get separated, not arbitrarily, in public view, i.e. rankings/classifications.

Davidson and Richmond fall more in line with an Oberlin, Harvey Mudd, or Furman. Very much undergraduate focused institutions with a high liberal arts base. If someone wants to check, I'll be shocked if Davidson and Richmond don't offer far smaller class sizes for their students than any of our schools. Their Carnegie classifications will be Bac level, whereas ours all take a doctoral or masters level classification, aiming at national and very top regional rankings. Davidson and Richmond will be judged in liberal arts rankings. Our schools are what I think of as the 'mix' schools. Our undergraduate programs are probably similar in content to either of them, but we have also made stronger pushes into graduate studies/research. I know neither are too far off from Butler or Providence, especially Richmond, but still, I think you'll find Butler and Providence have more commitment to grad studies. If you already think Butler or Providence are outliers in the conference, Richmond and Davidson would be more so.

VCU, though, isn't too dissimilar to us aside from size.. They aren't a big time tech school and as far as I have seen, their programs fit in with ours.

Anyways, St. Louis and Dayton are definitely the most similar to us from an institutional standpoint.

[DeltaV]

You Nova fans have got to jump on board here - you guys keep looking for the negative. We do not need any of the football schools - we are going to make more money than we ever would have in the Big East even if the billion dollar ESPN contract was approved, Have faith Dave - we are in the holy land of hoops!

I'm on board! I've actually been looking forward to this for 2-3 years; my college buddy who is the 'all sports know it all' was very against the idea of splitting from the football schools. I've been enjoying gloating that I was able to call something that he couldn't, since as the swimmer (and now distance runner) I'm usually made fun of a little for now knowing 'normal' sports.

Wouldn't UConn being public open the conference books in a way that the rest of the conference considers undesirable? Or do we consider their ball good enough to make it worth the sacrifice (that is my guess).

[Bostonspider]

I know neither are too far off from Butler or Providence, especially Richmond, but still, I think you'll find Butler and Providence have more commitment to grad studies. If you already think Butler or Providence are outliers in the conference, Richmond and Davidson would be more so.

Richmond has more graduate students than both Butler and Providence, both in percentage and in actual numbers. Davidson I agree is still very much an undergraduate College.

[yorost]

I know neither are too far off from Butler or Providence, especially Richmond, but still, I think you'll find Butler and Providence have more commitment to grad studies. If you already think Butler or Providence are outliers in the conference, Richmond and Davidson would be more so.

Richmond has more graduate students than both Butler and Providence, both in percentage and in actual numbers. Davidson I agree is still very much an undergraduate College.

Yeah, I saw that, but percentage and quantity don't tell the story about a school's graduate programs. Go to Providence's or Butler's website and check admission to find a fairly diverse range of degree granting graduate programs. If you check Richmond, it's mba, law and alternative study programs. Looks like you have a few masters offered, aimed at part time students? It's not a criticism, judgment, or argument against inclusion in the Big East towards your university, there's just a separation on the graduate front.