Ackerman: "Expansion isn't even on our plate"

[BillEsq]

BYU and Gonzaga would be a great deal. I wouldn't mind that a bit but I think the eastern schools would balk at that. There are just no good schools on the east coast that fit the profile of a Big East school.

LOL easy for you to say.... your 1000 miles from anyone. The thing is it will cost zaga and BYU more to join the league than it would be worth even with max NCAA Units. Just no value.

[Jet915]

BYU and Gonzaga would be a great deal. I wouldn't mind that a bit but I think the eastern schools would balk at that. There are just no good schools on the east coast that fit the profile of a Big East school.

LOL easy for you to say.... your 1000 miles from anyone. The thing is it will cost zaga and BYU more to join the league than it would be worth even with max NCAA Units. Just no value.

How do you know this? Have you calculated this? I'd like to see your numbers. I doubt the Zags are making much money from their ESPN contract with the WCC, my guess is it's similar to MVC/A-10 money (400K). You don't think 3 million will cover the expenses of travel? That's not even counting the extra money they would get from NCAA units compared to what they would get in a two bid WCC. If Gonzaga leaves the WCC, you think BYU wants to stick around with teams that play in high school gyms? Possibly, but I'm sure they'd start calling the Big XII or follow Gonzaga if that happened. Also, Creighton is actually about 500 miles from Milwaukee/Chicago and we are flying to all the Big East teams which they've studied and showed that it takes less time to fly to NY then to bus to Terre Haute.

[BillEsq]

Jet...
I did post my numbers the full worksheet is on a prior post on the previous thread page. For the sake of sanity i'll just let you look at there.

You'll note i cited the sites where i got the distances and fly times from. I also gave the cities names i used for examples obviously for providence the hole thing is more expensive and for Creighton its cheaper. Feel free to move the numbers around to meet your math.

In regards to costs for charter i just looked up some resources and found that charters generally cost around $8,000 per flight hour for crew and fuel. I'm sure these numbers vary feel free to use what ever sort of number you find out there. It it appears that my $8,000 number was completely off base let me know and i'll gladly take a look at it. But it looks about right. Also note that this number does not take into account costs for parking the plane at the various airports and such... because no matter where they fly they will have to pay this.

Ok now for any west coast school they would have to pay fly said charter back and forth across the country for half of their conference games for this number i chose a 16 game schedule so 8 games. I then subtracted Gonzagas longest current conference opponents distance from each of the flight costs. The fact is that Gonzaga is closer to San Diego than it is to Creighton. If you wanted to do the math out to a dollar you will find that it is much higher than my estimates however i did not feel like it was necessary to do a big spread sheet.

So please take a look at my prior posting review with the math and the materials i cited. Feel free to look up your own. Do your calculations. I know there are several Math majors on here have them check my math.. i admit i estimated and rounded.... and let me know if my number are off by much...
Yes i am always guilty of over analyzing things but i never intentionally mislead and i try to back up most of my statements with facts or at least quotes from oatmeal.

[Vill]

Unless Fox demands it there is no reason to go past 10. Ever.

[BillEsq]

Unless Fox demands it there is no reason to go past 10. Ever.

What if MSG wants it?

Seriously you don't have to want to expand and you can like the number of 10. But saying that there is no reason ever is a big statement I'm pretty sure i could come up with several that would make just about anyone say they would want to expand.

[Xudash]

Unless Fox demands it there is no reason to go past 10. Ever.

What if MSG wants it?

Seriously you don't have to want to expand and you can like the number of 10. But saying that there is no reason ever is a big statement I'm pretty sure i could come up with several that would make just about anyone say they would want to expand.

I cannot imagine a scenario where a conference tournament host site, regardless of its stature and location, would ever even so much as suggest to a conference that it should change its composition.

MSG signed on to the Big East "as-is"; they know what they have, moving forward. The natural inclination is to pan the Big East's ability to put butts in the seats in NY for the Big East Tournament with these ten schools involved. No Syracuse. No UCONN. I get that. I agree that the loss of those two schools has a direct negative effect on attendance. Otherwise, we'll see what happens with Ackerman and marketing and the conference tournament moving forward. What I'm tired of reading about is the loss of Pitt, ND, WVU, etc. with respect to NY attendance. NYC is it's own animal with basketball fans residing in it in great numbers. If its safe to assume that the conference, in the aggregate, performs well over the course of the season, bringing tournament caliber teams into NYC for the big show, then I believe the turnstiles will turn just fine.

As I noted in another thread, if they want expansion, they'll most likely only pursue it once clear, value-added expansion candidates prove themselves worthy. Xavier was obvious, with over two decades of sustained success through multiple coaches. Butler was obvious with more recent sustained success and multiple coaches (Butler probably would have made the cut had Stevens left for Boston prior to the final expansion decision announcement). Creighton may not have the same type of NCAA Tournament resume as those two, but Creighton possesses powerful attributes that made and make it a bona fide candidate - now member.

But the next two in, if there are to be two more in, aren't as clear as yet. St. Louis is as clear as anyone out there, but that just goes to show you how careful the Presidents are approaching the management of this conference - this asset.

[nathanhm]

That would only add 2 games to the tournament (1 session), no way MSG starts dictating the size of our conference. TV partner - potentially (they interact with you all season), conference tourney site - no way (The BET is 4 days, adding two teams, would make it 4 days).

[BillEsq]

I think you guys are all taking this wrong...

This went from me saying the BE expansion rumors are tabled for the time being. To saying its crazy to say that expansion will never happen.

Listen I'm not saying MSG is going to demand expansion. I'll i'm saying is that if they did the league would. If the FBS schools leave the NCAA and the condition of the BE joining them or staying in a now dead NCAA or joining them was adding new members they would most likely add new members. The point is that the NCAA world is in a very volatile stage right now. To state blindly that something will never happen is crazy. Hell i'm not saying when it will happen, why it will happen, and just who it will happen to but you gotta be able to see whats been going on in the sports world and well crap just about anything can happen.

SO.... So i don't get misquoted, misstated, or misinterpreted any more in the future. Here are my official opinions In regards to expansion: there are no active rumors out there right now. We all know that if the league expands only 5 schools have any chance and ND most likely is not coming to play. Spokane is located on the far side of the moon. You can't rule out expansion at anytime in this period of college realignment. The BE will be a good conference regardless of what happens. all 10 of the current BE schools are quality schools, and Bellarmine will make a great lacrosse addition.

[Xudash]

I think you guys are all taking this wrong...

This went from me saying the BE expansion rumors are tabled from the time being. To saying its crazy to say that expansion will never happen.

Listen I'm not saying MSG is going to demand expansion. I'll i'm saying is that if they did the league would. If the FBS schools leave the NCAA and the condition of the BE joining them or staying in a now dead NCAA or joining them was adding new members they would most likely add new members. The point is that the NCAA world is in a very volatile stage right now. To state blindly that something will never happen is crazy. Hell i'm not saying when it will happen, why it will happen, and just who it will happen to but you gotta be able to see whats been going on in the sports world and go crap just about anything can happen.

SO.... So i don't get misquoted, misstated, or misinterpreted any more in the future. Here are my official opinions In regards to expansion there are no active rumors out there right now. We all know that if the league expands only 5 schools have any chance and ND most likely is not coming to play. Spokane is located on the far side of the moon. You can't rule out expansion at anytime in this period of college realignment. The BE will be a good conference regardless of what happens. all 10 of the current BE schools are quality schools, and Bellarmine will make a great lacrosse addition.

I don't know if you include me as one of "you guys" in your response, but a few comments for you:

MSG will NEVER demand that the Big East expand; that simply isn't happening, regardless of the concept of "never saying never."
I cannot imagine the FBS schools ever leaving the NCAA for sports other than football. Such a move would destroy the NCAA Basketball Tournament in every regard, including, most importantly, its economic value. They don't want the basketball tournament destroyed. They know it will be an entirely different animal if first round games, as just one example, are left to be comprised of the likes of South Carolina v. Oregon State. In addition, the lawsuits and upheaval in collegiate environment would be extraordinary.
Even if they were to do something that self-defeating, from their lofty point-of-view, the last thing they would think about is telling the BE how to configure itself for inclusion in their prized club.
I do not take the position that the Big East will NEVER expand. I believe I've made it clear in my last few posts that expansion will only occur if their is an economic reason for it to occur and if expansion candidates have proven themselves viable from this day to that point in time. I don't see a "futures" play here; the next two in, if there are to be another two in, are going to have demonstrate their value, and that will take a little time.

You are absolutely correct to focus on the dynamic nature collegiate athletics at this time. Realignment may not be over with at all at this point, especially in football. So, I agree with the notion of never saying never, for the most part. But I also believe that the Big East - its leadership (Presidents) - are very pleased with the 10 and with the $500 million. Fox most likely is pleased with it as well or they would not have executed the agreement in the manner in which it was executed. The Big East can move forward with the luxury of time on its side. If expansion, which includes a willing desire to move off a round robin format, is in the picture or comes back into the picture FROM THE INSIDE (i.e. not outside parties "telling" the Big East what to do; inside includes BE Presidents and Fox, only) then it still will be driven by candidate schools who have demonstrated performance on a sustainable basis. For SLU, Richmond and UD to have any chance at this thing (assuming UD already isn't DOA due to sharing Ohio with Xavier) they had better start or continue to win and win big and make some noise in the NCAA Tournament, beginning this season.

[BillEsq]

Dash... i was to the extent that the MSG thing is taken out of a longer series post counter post where all i said was if A would happen B would happen.

I only used the MSG thing to say if. as in if it started to rain i would run indoors as opposed to saying that it was going to rain.... it was more a figure of speech than me saying it would happen. Somehow i'm not sure how it turned into a discussion on the MSG telling the BE what to do. I'm not saying that is occurring or will occur especially at this junction. Heck fall sports teams haven't even started to practice.

I agree with all your other points however... i urge you not to underestimate the evil power of FBS money greed. The big FBS schools would gladly leave the NCAA bball tournament if it meant they could corner all the FBS $$. They could stage their own bball tourney and invite whoever they want and sell that for as much. Without the FBS schools and their viewers the NCAA tourney's value is very much diminished. Plus the big schools could rid themselves of the mess that is the NCAA. As a friendly father figure one said, "never underestimate the power of the darkside". (and for that matter the incompetence that is the NCAA right now) on a side note the fanbases for Oregon State and South Carolina (being large state schools) dwarf any BE school. So i don't think they would be that afraid of that match up.