SLU - coaching job question

[BillEsq]

I think we did this Davis thing in another thread. Davis got canned at UAB. He is also not comparable to Crews. Indiana was his first head coaching job. Crews has over 22 years of prior head coaching experience. The Saint Louis situation is also very different than the Knight Indiana situation. Whether you like Crews or not he has nothing in common with Davis.

[Hoops]

Good points well taken. I have nothing for or against the guy personally.
My thoughts regarding the St Louis situation was provoked by universities in similar situations where assistant coaches regardless of reason or experience, have unexpectedly or transitionally been hired by their respective schools, and within a short period, fired because "things just didn’t work out". Sometimes it was the Peter-principal where the replacement didn't measure up. Or measure up fast enough and the timelines vary but all were short.
A few (so not to belabor a post) of the ones i can recall were - Guthridge who was 30 years with Dean Smith, Brian Mahoney who was 18 years with Loui Carnesecca, Craig Echerick 17 years with John Thompson, Fritch with Frieder at MI, and even to a less extent (like Davis) Dan Dakich who was with Calvin Sampson at Indiana. I'm not debating the "why" of thier release.. The comonality is previously on the same staff - all ending with the same reult.
Of course an argument can be made the other way too (Roy Williams and Dean Smith - even though Roy left and came back after much success at Kansas), I am not posting so that each specific situation is debated individually. And I realize there are likely assistants who have transitioned successfully. For this post, I took the opposite side of possibilites being considered where hiring a replacement coach from the current staff is a hire that more often than not, doesn't work out for the school.

[Muskie]

I think we did this Davis thing in another thread. Davis got canned at UAB. He is also not comparable to Crews. Indiana was his first head coaching job. Crews has over 22 years of prior head coaching experience. The Saint Louis situation is also very different than the Knight Indiana situation. Whether you like Crews or not he has nothing in common with Davis.

Indeed we did. Didn't realize he was fired at UAB. Although now that you mention it, does ring a bell.

Seems like SLU is going the Crews direction. Interested to see how that turns out.

[BillEsq]

Good points well taken. I have nothing for or against the guy personally.
My thoughts regarding the St Louis situation was provoked by universities in similar situations where assistant coaches regardless of reason or experience, have unexpectedly or transitionally been hired by their respective schools, and within a short period, fired because "things just didn’t work out". Sometimes it was the Peter-principal where the replacement didn't measure up. Or measure up fast enough and the timelines vary but all were short.
A few (so not to belabor a post) of the ones i can recall were - Guthridge who was 30 years with Dean Smith, Brian Mahoney who was 18 years with Loui Carnesecca, Craig Echerick 17 years with John Thompson, Fritch with Frieder at MI, and even to a less extent (like Davis) Dan Dakich who was with Calvin Sampson at Indiana. I'm not debating the "why" of thier release.. The comonality is previously on the same staff - all ending with the same reult.
Of course an argument can be made the other way too (Roy Williams and Dean Smith - even though Roy left and came back after much success at Kansas), I am not posting so that each specific situation is debated individually. And I realize there are likely assistants who have transitioned successfully. For this post, I took the opposite side of possibilites being considered where hiring a replacement coach from the current staff is a hire that more often than not, doesn't work out for the school.

Its possible Crews will fail... but comparing him to long time assistants is unfair to the situation. Majerus brought crews on at the last minute of last year. Crews was kept on for his head coaching ability and was hand picked by Majerus to guide the program on his leave of absence. The Peter-Principle factor just doesn't apply Crews was Majerus's assistant for the reality of 6 months and was kept on as Majerus's health deteriorated last spring. While the names you mentioned had 17, 18, and 30 years of assistant coaching experience Crews was never a Majerus "assistant" he was a friend who filled in on short notice for one season and was hand picked to succeed him. While I agree he can fail, and I have my own personal suspicions of Crews the whole assistant coach taking over the program thing just does not fit this situation.

[xnatic03]

Not a fan of Crews personally based on everything I've heard, but he did a helluva job under less than ideal circumstances (Majerus dying). Not sure how he'll do next year, with a fair amount of talent returning, but also a fair amount graduating. Beyond that, I don't know how well he can still recruit to keep the success going. It's an odd position for SLU to be in right now.

[DawgLover]

FWIW, it's been Butler's MO to promote from within when a head coach has moved on. In the last 20 years, it started after Barry Collier (now Butler's AD) moved on to coach Nebraska, and Butler hired his assistant, Thad Matta (Xavier, now Ohio State), and continued with Todd Lickliter (went to Iowa after being named National Coach of the Year) when Matta left. Current coach Brad Stevens was an assistant who moved up to replace Lickliter. (Stevens' top assistant, Matthew Graves, just accepted the head coaching job at South Alabama. Given Butler's history of promoting from within, we took that as a pretty good indication that Stevens had told Graves that he (Stevens) didn't plan to leave Butler in the foreseeable future.) Seems to have worked out pretty well for Butler.

[Hoops]

Good points well taken. I have nothing for or against the guy personally.
My thoughts regarding the St Louis situation was provoked by universities in similar situations where assistant coaches regardless of reason or experience, have unexpectedly or transitionally been hired by their respective schools, and within a short period, fired because "things just didn’t work out". Sometimes it was the Peter-principal where the replacement didn't measure up. Or measure up fast enough and the timelines vary but all were short.
A few (so not to belabor a post) of the ones i can recall were - Guthridge who was 30 years with Dean Smith, Brian Mahoney who was 18 years with Loui Carnesecca, Craig Echerick 17 years with John Thompson, Fritch with Frieder at MI, and even to a less extent (like Davis) Dan Dakich who was with Calvin Sampson at Indiana. I'm not debating the "why" of thier release.. The comonality is previously on the same staff - all ending with the same reult.
Of course an argument can be made the other way too (Roy Williams and Dean Smith - even though Roy left and came back after much success at Kansas), I am not posting so that each specific situation is debated individually. And I realize there are likely assistants who have transitioned successfully. For this post, I took the opposite side of possibilites being considered where hiring a replacement coach from the current staff is a hire that more often than not, doesn't work out for the school.

Its possible Crews will fail... but comparing him to long time assistants is unfair to the situation. Majerus brought crews on at the last minute of last year. Crews was kept on for his head coaching ability and was hand picked by Majerus to guide the program on his leave of absence. The Peter-Principle factor just doesn't apply Crews was Majerus's assistant for the reality of 6 months and was kept on as Majerus's health deteriorated last spring. While the names you mentioned had 17, 18, and 30 years of assistant coaching experience Crews was never a Majerus "assistant" he was a friend who filled in on short notice for one season and was hand picked to succeed him. While I agree he can fail, and I have my own personal suspicions of Crews the whole assistant coach taking over the program thing just does not fit this situation.

Ok good point won't compare an experienced coach to an inexperienced coach. Added good point won't compare years of experience and transition assistant coaches to legend coaches or other successors. And again, I have no pulse either way for what may ultimately happen. Its the spirit of the debate i enjoy.
So in that spirit, how about this - After joining Rick Majerus staff in the 2003/04 season at Utah, probably around the same time 6 mos later, Ray Giacoletti replaced "Rick Majerus" in 2003/04 after Rick Majerus middle of the season resignation.
Giacoletti the following year was given the head job. After being named head coach, and stacked with Rick Majerus recruits, coach Giacoletti went 29-6 his first seasn at Utah and went to the sweet 16... 2 years later he was fired. Today Giacoletti is an assistant at Gonzaga (unless he gets the Drake job that is).
Commonalities are recently added to the staff (even the same coach Majerus) before the season, years of head coaching experience, filled in during a mid-season event - was awarded head coaching job.... and ultimately fired soon after. Its relevant. (Also, maybe its a curse)

Although I agree completely with DawgLover, with experienced staff waiting in the wings, despite its risks, a successor head coach coming from the within the same staff can work. (Even though I pointed out the ones that did not). I have seen similar experiences at Creighton when years ago Creighton head coach Eddie Sutton left for Arkansas, and was replaced with long time assistant coach Tom Apke. That worked well for both institutions.. And after a stint with Willis Reed as Creighton's coach, Head Coach Tony Barone had been hired and eventually left Creighton for Texas A&M, his replacement didn't fare as well and Ceighton had to start all over. It was a train wreck period and we gladly Welcomed the Dana Altman era even after he'd been (so to speak) run out of Kansas State after having assumed the KS-State head job from Lon Kruger.

[xnatic03]

FWIW, it's been Butler's MO to promote from within when a head coach has moved on. In the last 20 years, it started after Barry Collier (now Butler's AD) moved on to coach Nebraska, and Butler hired his assistant, Thad Matta (Xavier, now Ohio State), and continued with Todd Lickliter (went to Iowa after being named National Coach of the Year) when Matta left. Current coach Brad Stevens was an assistant who moved up to replace Lickliter. (Stevens' top assistant, Matthew Graves, just accepted the head coaching job at South Alabama. Given Butler's history of promoting from within, we took that as a pretty good indication that Stevens had told Graves that he (Stevens) didn't plan to leave Butler in the foreseeable future.) Seems to have worked out pretty well for Butler.

Xavier's recent MO has been to promote from within as well.
Saint Louis seems to have a solid foundation going. If Crews' heart is in it, it probably wouldn't hurt bringing him back to see how it plays out. They could be a great addition to this league.

[ArmyVet]

Crews will have interim tag removed per reports.

[BillikensWin]

Crews will have interim tag removed per reports.

Yeah, when Father Biondi feels like it.