St. Joseph's

[UDGutter2]

...when you end up with a brutal league conference schedule, you don't always have to load up your non-conference with all tough matchups.

I never agreed with that, a tough OOC schedule can still be a boon for a program. Maybe you can have more balance, but getting those hard games in gets you extra exposure and more respect in season previews. Look at UC, their OOC hss been a joke, and they get ridiculed for it almost every year, lately. Puts a lot more pressure on them to perform in conference play regarding a NCAA bid. Flip side, I think it was UConn a few seasons ago that had a just brutal schedule all year, ended up with a ton of leeway on their NCAA profile despite so many losses.

SOS of Big East NCAA and NIT Tourney Teams:
L'ville - 6
Gtwn - 16
Marq. - 14
ND - 49
Syr - 7
Pitt - 71 (disgrace)
Nova - 22
Cinn - 27
Prov - 57
SJU - 34

A-10:
St. Lou - 38
Butler - 32
VCU - 41
Temple - 62
LaSalle - 77
Charlotte - 104
St. Joe's - 89
Dayton - 95

Kind of makes my point. There are 8 total teams in the BE that had a tougher schedule overall than the team in the A-10 with the best SOS. And the A-10 is having one of its best seasons in years. The tougher leagues provide plenty of tough matchups for you. Nothing wrong with a few tough OOC games but you don't have to go wild b/c you are going to have opportunities to prove yourself in the league. Dayton, exp. next year, without Butler, Temple and Xavier will not hav

e that luxury and will need a really tough OOC. ND, in the ACC, will not.

And "UConn a couple years ago" finished 9th in the conference and yet won the National Champ. Their OOC didn't prepare them for that run, their league schedule did.

There is a trick to getting good rpis and SOS for everyone in the league and I don't think the a10 has learned it. I don't care about your school's individual sos. Every school should play as strong opponents as they can beat. Every league member should get 10+ occ wins per year. Then when you get into conference the top teams won't take a RPI or SOS hit in conference. Quite honestly, Temple's practice of playing anyone anywhere helped them but hurt the league.

[Edrick]

I'd imagine that Xavier and Butler will both have similar proximity problems with Dayton.

Why create another legitimate threat in a region that has a concentration of threats like nowhere in the country?

[Bluejay]

And lastly, if you think small, Catholic college basketball can't thrive in a football-first, state-school dominated state, just take a look at Ohio. I think Xavier and Dayton hold their own, both with recruits and fan interest.

Wait, what?

You are lecturing a Creighton fan about a "small, Catholic college basketball can't thrive in a football-first, state-school dominated state"? Please, we are the poster child for such a thing. Have you ever heard of Nebraska football?

The issue with Detroit is that they are such a long, long way from being able to compete at a major conference level. You can't just pick someone because of the size of the market without taking competitiveness into account. Further, demographic trends for Detroit are not good. Very few cities have dwindling populations, but Detroit is one of them.

[NDGradXUFan]

You are lecturing a Creighton fan about a "small, Catholic college basketball can't thrive in a football-first, state-school dominated state"? Please, we are the poster child for such a thing. Have you ever heard of Nebraska football?

1) No, I'm not lecturing you. I'm simply saying that to the extent that Nebraska both is football crazy for its state school power and has a small Catholic school with an impressive fan base, Ohio meets those criteria in equal measure. In no way was I suggesting we trump you in that regard, and I fail to see how you could have derived that from what I wrote.

2) You seem to be suggesting that Nebraska is a bigger football power than Ohio State. You're kidding, right? Historically, it's hard to argue that they're anything other than on par with one another. And I say that as someone who despises all things Ohio State ...

[Ball Turret Gunner]

I'd imagine that Xavier and Butler will both have similar proximity problems with Dayton.

Why create another legitimate threat in a region that has a concentration of threats like nowhere in the country?

Why would a conference want a high concentration of threatening basketball programs leading to more heated rivalries and border wars? Because those will end up being marquee games that draw an audience?

[alk4474]

It really doesn't matter how close schools are. Its always up to the kid where he wants to go. If your schools is good enough you shouldn't worry other school. Dayton and Xavier have always recruited against each other and it hasn't hurt either school. Xavier been good at taking kids out of dayton. And dayton don't really go after kids in cincy

[NDGradXUFan]

Why would a conference want a high concentration of threatening basketball programs leading to more heated rivalries and border wars? Because those will end up being marquee games that draw an audience?

THANK YOU! Finally someone makes a little sense. Competitiveness, rivalries, and fan interest are what ultimately drive collegiate sports. Consider the rivalry between UNC and Duke. Arguably, that rivalry made ACC basketball what it is, and how many miles separate them? When you reduce conference membership to revenue, television markets, geographic "footprint", and a whiny school's hubris and narcissistic territorialism vis-à-vis a crosstown rival (sorry Nova, but all of your posts here have only reaffirmed this opinion), you take something fundamental away from competitiveness and what puts fans in the seats. As much as I'm thrilled that Xavier is joining this league, another part of me is equally disgusted by the tidal wave of conference realignment over the past few years. The almighty dollar is driving everything, and in this respect, the tail is really wagging the dog. Money now determines who plays who, which rivalries are preserved, and which rivalries are destroyed. Will we ever recognize that collegiate sport became the massive money-making machine that it is because of the organic manner in which rivalries developed and thrived, the Hatfield-McCoy-esque border wars with your neighbors, the unexpected thrill of small town David slaying big city Goliath, and all the other unscripted doses of excitement that keep us on the edge of our seats?

What was once organic is now completely contrived, and I feel that at some point it's all going to backfire. Would a group of fans in Stillwater, Oklahoma naturally have a vested interest in their hometown school annually playing and defeating a team from Morgantown, West Virginia, some 1,100 miles away? Um, obviously not. How long will the ESPNs of the world be able to sell this lie before Okie does an honest self assessment and says to himself, "You know, I'd rather just play Tulsa ..."

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. As a Domer, I should start throwing stones at my own glass house. Notre Dame is serial offender number 1 in this regard, and I can offer no excuses or justifications for it. The bastion of "integrity" I call my alma mater is every bit as driven by money as any other school, and probably more so. At the end of the day, though, I dislike this trend where ever it takes place. And right now, Villanova, you are the focus of my ire. St. Joseph's should be in this league, and you need to stop being a prima donna. Loathe your rival, sure, but respect him as well and, above all, embrace the rivalry. I've always been a casual Villanova fan, but I'm really starting to dislike you ... which is frustrating because I have a grad school application in place at Nova as we speak. But go ahead and maintain your air of superiority and dismissiveness toward your crosstown brethren because, as any well versed Jesuit or Augustinian will tell you, pride goeth before the fall.

[muskienick]

I'd imagine that Xavier and Butler will both have similar proximity problems with Dayton.

Why create another legitimate threat in a region that has a concentration of threats like nowhere in the country?

And yet Xavier helped UD to become a member of the A-10 and both X and UD were involved in inviting Butler into the A-10. It didn't bother them and their attendance numbers remained high and recruiting hasn't been hurt at all.

On the other hand, the new Big East is built on a different platform than the A-10. Assuming that St. Louis is likely to be the next member to be selected by the Big East from the midwest, I'd prefer to see the Conference more geographically balanced by the selection of one of the two potential members from Richmond, Virginia instead of from Dayton. That thought seems to have some real support from important places (the Hoya brass).

[SixTwentySix]

I'd imagine that Xavier and Butler will both have similar proximity problems with Dayton.

Why create another legitimate threat in a region that has a concentration of threats like nowhere in the country?

Why would a conference want a high concentration of threatening basketball programs leading to more heated rivalries and border wars? Because those will end up being marquee games that draw an audience?

St Joes and Nova already have a marquee heated rivalry that draws an audience. Whether they're invited or not. So that's really a moot point.

[Edrick]

It really doesn't matter how close schools are. Its always up to the kid where he wants to go. If your schools is good enough you shouldn't worry other school. Dayton and Xavier have always recruited against each other and it hasn't hurt either school. Xavier been good at taking kids out of dayton. And dayton don't really go after kids in cincy

Wait a second, you are actually posting this in a thread about Villanova blocking St Joes?