St. Joseph's

[yorost]

...when you end up with a brutal league conference schedule, you don't always have to load up your non-conference with all tough matchups.

I never agreed with that, a tough OOC schedule can still be a boon for a program. Maybe you can have more balance, but getting those hard games in gets you extra exposure and more respect in season previews. Look at UC, their OOC hss been a joke, and they get ridiculed for it almost every year, lately. Puts a lot more pressure on them to perform in conference play regarding a NCAA bid. Flip side, I think it was UConn a few seasons ago that had a just brutal schedule all year, ended up with a ton of leeway on their NCAA profile despite so many losses.

[DeltaV]

I was going to write out a long reply, but pretty much anything I would have said has already been said. They play Nova well in the Big 5 game, but honestly they're just not on par with the rest of the teams we're looking to bring in to the conference, and they don't have the location/market upside of the favored whipping boys of the new conference, Seton Hall and DePaul.

[NDGradXUFan]

Nice douchey comments, I guess coming from a Domer I'm not surprised.

Come on out to Omaha to see if there is anything else to do here, I think you would be surprised. What you and many fail to understand is that Nebraska and Iowa are COLLEGE SPORTS JUNKIE areas of the country. This may be hard to comprehend for those in cities with the NBA and all but few out here gives two sh*ts about the NBA and most pro sports. I can't remember where I saw it but the number of eyes on college events from this area is very, very high. Detriot may have lots of eyes but how many of them are trained on Detroit-Mercy and college sports in general? How about all big markets, how much interest do local colleges garner? I don't know the answers but Creighton didn't get picked without a great deal of vetting and with the geographical outlier status being a big minus there are a number of college presidents who strongly disagree with your assessment if they looked beyond the geography and chose CU.

So salty ... sheesh.

Look, I like your program. I have since the days of Rodney Buford. You have a good thing going in Omaha and I'm glad you're in the league (I already stated as much). And If you think Omaha is crazy about college sports (and college basketball in particular), pay a visit to the Buckeye state. The whole reason the Cincinnati Royals left the Queen City way back when was because they couldn't compete with the combined fan interest of UC, XU, and UD. Throw in the Buckeyes, and you have a TON of fan interest in college basketball. Xavier and UD alone routinely sell out their sizeable arenas (Cintas is 11k seats and UD Arena is around 15). Having grown up between Cincinnati and Dayton, myself, my comment about there being nothing else to do in Omaha but attend Creighton games is borne more of experience than anything. On weekends in the winter, there really is nothing else to do but go to a college basketball game. Yeah, we're from the midwest. We don't live the yuppy, high-life like those in NYC.

Also, I never suggested that Creighton wasn't vetted. Clearly they were. Geographically, it makes sense for a likely addition in St. Louis to have another rough geographic rival to complement DePaul and Marquette. St. Louis and Creighton previously had a solid rivalry back when they were both in the MVC. This certainly could play off of that history. That said, I still think that long-term there is more revenue potential in Detroit than in Omaha. Sure, Detroit would face serious growing pains if they were invited, but I think it would ultimately elevate their program. And lastly, if you think small, Catholic college basketball can't thrive in a football-first, state-school dominated state, just take a look at Ohio. I think Xavier and Dayton hold their own, both with recruits and fan interest.

[jimijon]

I am a nova alum. back in the late early eighties i had some business with the Camden N.J, school district. I was walking in the halls of "The High" when i crossed paths with the St Joe's coach. I cheerfully said, "hey coach what are you doing here, and he said, "i'm trying to recruit Milt Wagner, but i'll never get him". i said,"it would be great for the big five if you do, good luck, i'm a nova grad. He looked at me with a cold almost hate filled glare and said , "that's your problem". I never forgot the sorrow of that day. i was actually rooting for that creep.
There is a difference between a natural fun competitive rivalry, and the un-natural hatred coming from hawk hill towards Nova.
I know love conquers all, but without divine intervention my human heart would have a whole lot of problems trying to help that group.
Speaking for myself and my Nova friends, we couldn't care less about anything good or bad that happens to the St Joes program.
Incidently i was rooting hard for Lasalle against Boise St, and will continue to root hard for them against K State.
I hope all St Joe fans and alum get into the kingdom of Heaven when they pass, but share a conference with them, no thank you.

[jimijon]

late 70's early 80's

[GumbyDamnit!]

...when you end up with a brutal league conference schedule, you don't always have to load up your non-conference with all tough matchups.

I never agreed with that, a tough OOC schedule can still be a boon for a program. Maybe you can have more balance, but getting those hard games in gets you extra exposure and more respect in season previews. Look at UC, their OOC hss been a joke, and they get ridiculed for it almost every year, lately. Puts a lot more pressure on them to perform in conference play regarding a NCAA bid. Flip side, I think it was UConn a few seasons ago that had a just brutal schedule all year, ended up with a ton of leeway on their NCAA profile despite so many losses.

SOS of Big East NCAA and NIT Tourney Teams:
L'ville - 6
Gtwn - 16
Marq. - 14
ND - 49
Syr - 7
Pitt - 71 (disgrace)
Nova - 22
Cinn - 27
Prov - 57
SJU - 34

A-10:
St. Lou - 38
Butler - 32
VCU - 41
Temple - 62
LaSalle - 77
Charlotte - 104
St. Joe's - 89
Dayton - 95

Kind of makes my point. There are 8 total teams in the BE that had a tougher schedule overall than the team in the A-10 with the best SOS. And the A-10 is having one of its best seasons in years. The tougher leagues provide plenty of tough matchups for you. Nothing wrong with a few tough OOC games but you don't have to go wild b/c you are going to have opportunities to prove yourself in the league. Dayton, exp. next year, without Butler, Temple and Xavier will not have that luxury and will need a really tough OOC. ND, in the ACC, will not.

And "UConn a couple years ago" finished 9th in the conference and yet won the National Champ. Their OOC didn't prepare them for that run, their league schedule did.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I am a nova alum. back in the late early eighties i had some business with the Camden N.J, school district. I was walking in the halls of "The High" when i crossed paths with the St Joe's coach. I cheerfully said, "hey coach what are you doing here, and he said, "i'm trying to recruit Milt Wagner, but i'll never get him". i said,"it would be great for the big five if you do, good luck, i'm a nova grad. He looked at me with a cold almost hate filled glare and said , "that's your problem". I never forgot the sorrow of that day. i was actually rooting for that creep.
There is a difference between a natural fun competitive rivalry, and the un-natural hatred coming from hawk hill towards Nova.
I know love conquers all, but without divine intervention my human heart would have a whole lot of problems trying to help that group.
Speaking for myself and my Nova friends, we couldn't care less about anything good or bad that happens to the St Joes program.
Incidently i was rooting hard for Lasalle against Boise St, and will continue to root hard for them against K State.
I hope all St Joe fans and alum get into the kingdom of Heaven when they pass, but share a conference with them, no thank you.

Well said jimijon. As a Nova guy I can't stomach SJ(PA). I respect Temple and LaSalle and Penn but can't root for the Joeys--ever. Too many instances where their fans spew vitriole our way. A SJ(PA) guy this year even started an ugly I-net rumor that Jay Wright was having an affair with a co-ed. We have no interest in helping thier program in any way.

[yorost]

SOS of Big East NCAA and NIT Tourney Teams:
L'ville - 6
Gtwn - 16
Marq. - 14
ND - 49
Syr - 7
Pitt - 71 (disgrace)
Nova - 22
Cinn - 27
Prov - 57
SJU - 34

A-10:
St. Lou - 38
Butler - 32
VCU - 41
Temple - 62
LaSalle - 77
Charlotte - 104
St. Joe's - 89
Dayton - 95

Kind of makes my point. There are 8 total teams in the BE that had a tougher schedule overall than the team in the A-10 with the best SOS. And the A-10 is having one of its best seasons in years. The tougher leagues provide plenty of tough matchups for you. Nothing wrong with a few tough OOC games but you don't have to go wild b/c you are going to have opportunities to prove yourself in the league. Dayton, exp. next year, without Butler, Temple and Xavier will not have that luxury and will need a really tough OOC. ND, in the ACC, will not.

And "UConn a couple years ago" finished 9th in the conference and yet won the National Champ. Their OOC didn't prepare them for that run, their league schedule did.

I get your point, but a weak OOC did UC no favors. We might not need it as much for SOS or RPI, but that doesn't mean it can't provide benefits. 2-3 big wins in OOC and you can enter conference play needing to achieve a lot less for an NCAA bid. Every extra buy game also puts you at additional risk for a bad loss. It's not a lot different than conference play. Bad teams represent a risk while good teams represent a chance. You need some buy games, but too many is not good.

[DeltaV]

I am a nova alum. back in the late early eighties i had some business with the Camden N.J, school district. I was walking in the halls of "The High" when i crossed paths with the St Joe's coach. I cheerfully said, "hey coach what are you doing here, and he said, "i'm trying to recruit Milt Wagner, but i'll never get him". i said,"it would be great for the big five if you do, good luck, i'm a nova grad. He looked at me with a cold almost hate filled glare and said , "that's your problem". I never forgot the sorrow of that day. i was actually rooting for that creep.
There is a difference between a natural fun competitive rivalry, and the un-natural hatred coming from hawk hill towards Nova.
I know love conquers all, but without divine intervention my human heart would have a whole lot of problems trying to help that group.
Speaking for myself and my Nova friends, we couldn't care less about anything good or bad that happens to the St Joes program.
Incidently i was rooting hard for Lasalle against Boise St, and will continue to root hard for them against K State.
I hope all St Joe fans and alum get into the kingdom of Heaven when they pass, but share a conference with them, no thank you.

Well said jimijon. As a Nova guy I can't stomach SJ(PA). I respect Temple and LaSalle and Penn but can't root for the Joeys--ever. Too many instances where their fans spew vitriole our way. A SJ(PA) guy this year even started an ugly I-net rumor that Jay Wright was having an affair with a co-ed. We have no interest in helping thier program in any way.

I dated a St. Joes girl for a while, and a friends sister went there; the both mentioned that they are really taught to hate 'Nova from orientation, while at Nova we knew they were a rival, but always looked forward to the Georgetown, Syracuse, and UConn games as well. I still want Philly basketball to do well (I was cheering hard for LaSalle last night) but the truth is the only other program close to the same level is Temple.

A few years ago I got a book on the Big 5 for my parents for Christmas (they were both there in the 70s, my dad still talks about the '71 season); what was interesting was many of the 'big win' highlights for the other 4 teams were times they beat Nova, while the Nova highlights were beating national teams.

[billyjack]

Our allegiance should be with our conference mates. I don't want to make any moves that would hurt Villanova, so no to St Joe's (though they have a great history and tradition, used to play PC a lot, and my 7 yr old likes the mascot continuously flapping his wings).