Xavier, Butler, Creighton official?

[BigPoppa]

"But, Dayton is barely competitive in the A10. It would be embarrassing to add a team that didn't even aualify for a lower conference tournament (which may happen). The fact they are in a redundant market doesn't even need to enter into the conversation. The Flyers have won 1 tournament game in 20 years. It's an egg on the face if they join."

Sat, March 2: Dayton 78 - Richmond 74

Current A-10 Records

Richmond 7-8
Dayton 7-8

2013 BCS WINS

Richmond: Wake
Dayton: BC, Auburn, Alabama

Earned birth in 2013 A-10 Tourney: Neither

SCOREBOARD!

SCOREBOARD!!

[Edrick]

Any defense of the Dayton basketball program quickly devolves into nonsense that doesn't matter (like above)

Dayton is an average A10 basketball program. They just replace Depaul if included.

1 NCAA Tournament win in 20 years? Just stop trying to defend it. People know what Dayton basketball is, you aren't changing any minds.

Thankfully the last couple teams haven't been chosen, missing the A10 tournament would still be able to provide more color.

[Flyer11]

Edrick,

If this is simply between Richmond and Dayton, the recent performance says that it is basically a push. I think everything else (other than possibly geography) favors UD. I went to Dayton knowing they had a DECENT basketball program, but I had no idea what I was in for when I actually went to a game. The fans appreciate that program so much and have such a connection with it. Dayton knows how important the Flyers to the city.

REALLY BIAS ALERT: I think Dayton would be a great addition to the BE, versus Richmond. I think Dayton would compete year-on and year-out in that type of conference. I don't think it would be difficult to get very good recruits to want to be a part of this UD program.

I won't get into too much more detail, but geography is the only thing that gives Richmond an edge, which might be enough to pick them over Dayton, but LONG TERM it would be a bad decision to take them over UD.

Russ

[xu5595]

To the public including the peoe buying ad space and commercial time, the bottom of the confernece IS of less importance for the simple reason that those teams aren't going to be the ones featured on the networks. Sorry.

But, Dayton is barely competitive in the A10. It would be embarrassing to add a team that didn't even aualify for a lower conference tournament (which may happen). The fact they are in a redundant market doesn't even need to enter into the conversation. The Flyers have won 1 tournament game in 20 years. It's an egg on the face if they join.

I think the "redundant" market is actually one of Dayton's strengths, not weaknesses. For example, 8 of the 9 matchups featuring any combination of X, BU, SLU, or UD were picked up for national broadcast, with the SLU/X game being the lone exeption. Conversely, none of Richmond's games vs. X/BU/SLU/UD were broadcast nationally, while both their games with VCU were picked up. People buying ad space want to reach their target market. A game with regional interest is also more likely to pick up the casual viewer than a more national matchup that doesn't have any national appeal.

[Flyer11]

To the public including the peoe buying ad space and commercial time, the bottom of the confernece IS of less importance for the simple reason that those teams aren't going to be the ones featured on the networks. Sorry.

But, Dayton is barely competitive in the A10. It would be embarrassing to add a team that didn't even aualify for a lower conference tournament (which may happen). The fact they are in a redundant market doesn't even need to enter into the conversation. The Flyers have won 1 tournament game in 20 years. It's an egg on the face if they join.

I think the "redundant" market is actually one of Dayton's strengths, not weaknesses. For example, 8 of the 9 matchups featuring any combination of X, BU, SLU, or UD were picked up for national broadcast, with the SLU/X game being the lone exeption. Conversely, none of Richmond's games vs. X/BU/SLU/UD were broadcast nationally, while both their games with VCU were picked up. People buying ad space want to reach their target market. A game with regional interest is also more likely to pick up the casual viewer than a more national matchup that doesn't have any national appeal.

Below is an old post of mine that shows that the TV stations (presumably) like Dayton. Small example, but I think it says something:::

"I understand that geographically, it makes sense to consider Richmond. However, I think it would be a mistake to take them over Dayton.

Speaking on the topic of national exposure, NBC Sports signed on this year as part of the new TV package for the A-10 (with CBS and ESPN) to show 22-25 games each season. However, it was so close to the beginning of the season when it was announced, that they only had the opportunity to show 6 games this season. Here were the games that they chose:

Date Game Time

Saturday, January 5 Lehigh at VCU 5:00 p.m. ET

Saturday, January 12 Butler at Dayton 2:00 p.m. ET

Saturday, February 2 Dayton at Saint Louis 2:00 p.m. ET

Saturday, February 16 Saint Joseph's at La Salle (Palestra) 1:00 p.m. ET

Thursday, March 7 Butler at Massachusetts 7:00 p.m. ET

Saturday, March 9 La Salle at Saint Louis 1:30 p.m. ET

I think it speaks volumes that they chose Dayton twice. They were picked before the season to finish 8th in the A-10, but NBC Sports still chose to show them twice. I understand that they played Butler and St. Louis in both of those games, but NBC I am sure wanted Dayton as the other half of the match up.

I do not know know what that does or does not say about Richmond, but I think it says a lot about Dayton.

Completely biased,
Flyer11

[SandstormFlyer]

Any defense of the Dayton basketball program quickly devolves into nonsense that doesn't matter (like above)

Dayton is an average A10 basketball program. They just replace Depaul if included.

1 NCAA Tournament win in 20 years? Just stop trying to defend it. People know what Dayton basketball is, you aren't changing any minds.

Thankfully the last couple teams haven't been chosen, missing the A10 tournament would still be able to provide more color.

There's no denying our recent woes, but it's not like we've been Fordham. Putting that aside, enlighten us how UR stacks up against UD with:

New arena plans (ie - ability to host tourneys for bball and other sports)
Olympic Sports (ie - ranked teams in women's hoops/volleyball, competitive soccer)
Consistent season tix sales
Rabid fan base (ie - fill up seats in STL, WI, Chicago, Jersey, DC, etc)
Viewership (ie - more Ohio folks purchasing Fox Sports packages through their cable providers)

I'm still in the opinion that UD isn't a lock, but the media continues to provide me reasons to believe we're very close.

[medford]

Saying 1 win in the last 20 wins is a little misleading. Its true, no doubt about that, but it also includes the time period where Jim O'Brien took the program to the depths of hell. There was a good reason why UD was left out when the Great Midwest rebranded, and it primarily lies w/ Jim O'Brien; how the heck he ever got (3) seperate NBA head coaching gigs is still beyond me. Once Oliver Purnell was brought in to do his thing (rebuilding) the team has been decent to solid. We haven't seen the success that most fans would like, certainly not the level of success that Xavier or Butler have seen, but overall, in the last 10 years or so, UD's resume stacks up with Creighton, SLU & Richmond.

As far as the NBC thing, I think you'd have to expand beyond that. I'm not sure what all the national games were, but I suspect the reason why X doesn't shown up is that most of the national games were already locked into (ie UD @ X has been locked into the CBS sports package while X @ UD has been locked into the ESPN package, those two games are always shown nationally, and I possibly the two biggest games the A-10 has/had to offer in a vaccuum over the last 5-10 years)

the one thing that UD has going for it, is fan base and instititional support. There are rumors of a new 18k seat arena to be built w/n a stones throw of campus, hell UD had 10K+ showing up when Jim O'Brien was leading them to 4 & 6 wins over consecutive seasons. While olympic sports count for little, they do count for "something" and UD stacks up well there. The women's team is staring down a 4 seed or better in the NCAA, the soccer teams have been in the NCAA recently and strong w/n the A10 and the Volleyball program has been great. The financial support for the Men's basketball program has been there, there has been vast improvements to the areana over the last few years, they've improved the on site facilities/workout facilities for the team, etc.. All that is missing is the on the court success in the NCAA. Easier said than done, I think many thought Gregory would get us there, and finally winning a game in the NCAA is worth nothing, but by the time GTech came and took him away, many of the flyer faithful were growing tired of Gregory's lack of development of players, and stagnant if not non-existant half court offense.

If the debate is b/w Ud & richmond, and you're worried about taking a team that might potentiall miss out on their conference tournament, keep in mind that Richmond hasn't locked up a bid either yet. UD could finish anywhere from 7th to out of the A-10 based upon today's results. Aside from that, I doubt the Big East brass are all that worried about 1 single season, but looking more at the level of support each potential partner sees, what they do w/ that support over an extended time period, and which fits best with their long term vision. That and what Fox tells them gives them the best value for their TV dollars.

[Edrick]

I'm not emotional. Dayton just isn't a Big East basketball program.

They aren't getting into the conference now and that is a good thing. UD has no business in a high major league, they are a middling Mid Major.

It's clear the presidents have reservations, with more failure they won't be taken. It could be years before we go to 12. By then, who knows who'll be considered.

[Flyer11]

I'm not emotional. Dayton just isn't a Big East basketball program.

They aren't getting into the conference now and that is a good thing. UD has no business in a high major league, they are a middling Mid Major.

It's clear the presidents have reservations, with more failure they won't be taken. It could be years before we go to 12. By then, who knows who'll be considered.

If you aren't emotional, please make the cases for Creighton, Richmond, and SLU over Dayton (talking strictly about the program). Don't give me that SLU is in a better TV market because we already know that. I want to know what separates those programs from Dayton.

Flyer11

[SandstormFlyer]

Flyer supporters
I would not suggest trying to make logical arguments to Edick. Granted UD has not been stellar the last 20 years but neither have we been the portrait Edick tries to paint. I don't believe his outlook will change with education or logical arguments. His arguments are largely emotional nothing more. I suspect he hangs out with the likes of PMThor. I would suggest not wasting your time and ignore. Just my humble advice.

Thanks purpieschu, duly noted. I don't mind disagreements, I just want some substance and insight.

I'll still buy Edrick a beer if UD gets in for 2014, but just one.