2023 Coaching Carousel

[aughnanure]

Being one of the worst programs in a major conference is not better than being a top 3 program in a major conference. Georgetown is rich, 99% of alumni don't matter for NIL. TV revenue the schools are getting cant be spent to pay players through NIL.

Penn State is not a better job. Of the states it borders in its own conference, it only could be debatable to be better than one - Rutgers. Stop with this nonsense that any SEC/B1G job is better than a job at an actual college basketball school/brand just cause "TV rights".

[billyjack]

... Stop with this nonsense that any SEC/B1G job is better than a job at an actual college basketball school/brand just cause "TV rights".

Agree totally.

[Jasper67]

Being one of the worst programs in a major conference is not better than being a top 3 program in a major conference. Georgetown is rich, 99% of alumni don't matter for NIL. TV revenue the schools are getting cant be spent to pay players through NIL.

Penn State is not a better job. Of the states it borders in its own conference, it only could be debatable to be better than one - Rutgers. Stop with this nonsense that any SEC/B1G job is better than a job at an actual college basketball school/brand just cause "TV rights".

You’re looking in the rear view mirror. The times they are a-changin’. Take the blinders off.

And how is Georgetown a top 3 program in the Big East? Eight straight seasons without a winning record in league play says otherwise. They are currently the worst program in the league. Attendance is way down. Support has eroded. And PSU is on the rise.

It’s not just about TV rights. It’s about NIL as well. And mostly it’s about money.

[ArmyVet]

Being one of the worst programs in a major conference is not better than being a top 3 program in a major conference. Georgetown is rich, 99% of alumni don't matter for NIL. TV revenue the schools are getting cant be spent to pay players through NIL.

Penn State is not a better job. Of the states it borders in its own conference, it only could be debatable to be better than one - Rutgers. Stop with this nonsense that any SEC/B1G job is better than a job at an actual college basketball school/brand just cause "TV rights".

You’re looking in the rear view mirror. The times they are a-changin’. Take the blinders off.

And how is Georgetown a top 3 program in the Big East? Eight straight seasons without a winning record in league play says otherwise. They are currently the worst program in the league. Attendance is way down. Support has eroded. And PSU is on the rise.

It’s not just about TV rights. It’s about NIL as well. And mostly it’s about money.

I am sort of with Jasper here. The reality - in my eyes - is that the extremely deep pockets of football schools and their boosters will allow them access to better players than would have ever considered their schools before. In the past, maybe some of those players chose Georgetown, but why now if I get six figures playing at a football school?

[aughnanure]

Being one of the worst programs in a major conference is not better than being a top 3 program in a major conference. Georgetown is rich, 99% of alumni don't matter for NIL. TV revenue the schools are getting cant be spent to pay players through NIL.

Penn State is not a better job. Of the states it borders in its own conference, it only could be debatable to be better than one - Rutgers. Stop with this nonsense that any SEC/B1G job is better than a job at an actual college basketball school/brand just cause "TV rights".

You’re looking in the rear view mirror. The times they are a-changin’. Take the blinders off.

And how is Georgetown a top 3 program in the Big East? Eight straight seasons without a winning record in league play says otherwise. They are currently the worst program in the league. Attendance is way down. Support has eroded. And PSU is on the rise.

It’s not just about TV rights. It’s about NIL as well. And mostly it’s about money.

What is Penn State, the 14th best job in the conference? It's not a good job! No one cares in State College, they'll be more excited about the freaking spring practice. The idea that all it takes is a few decent years for a perennial awful basketball program to surpass a brand as big as Georgetown is absurd. Georgetown may not be what it once was, and we can debate how likely it is to get back there (they need to excoriate themselves from having to be tied directly to Bihg John) but we aren't talking about Georgetown taking the Illinois coach, or the Maryland coach, or the Purdue coach. Its Penn State's!

In your world, every B1G/SEC job is better than any other conference job outside like a Kansas/UNC. I'm telling you that in a conference of 14 (soon to be 16 with UCLA/USC!), being the 10th best program (at best) is BAD no matter your money. Donors aren't going to want to line up to drop money into that, especially when they have to for football. And again, your TV rights don't matter for NIL.

Your own biases are showing if you really think Georgetown doesn't have a higher ceiling. They need to get this right because there is a danger of being in wilderness too long it stops mattering (hello Depaul), but they still went to a freaking Final Four 15 years ago. They won the Big East the last time Marquette did in 2013. Its insane to me what people's "what have you done for me lately" timeframe's really are sometimes, when your comparing it to Penn State who before this year hadn't made it to the tourney since 2011!.

Also, the idea Georgetown doesnt have comparable or even more money (esp when they dont have to spend on football) is ridiculous. They have tons. And I honestly respect their fanbase for not showing up for that crap the past 5 seasons, they shouldn't be expected to. They should expect more.

[adoraz]

Jasper, I agree with some of what you're saying, but when you start out with a quote like this: What makes Georgetown a top 25 job in college basketball? They were 36th in basketball revenue last year while Penn State was 45th.

Isn't that proving they're a top 25 job? You're saying they were 36th in revenue despite being the worst Power team in the nation for a number of years now? None of those basketball numbers for Penn St, from attendance to revenue, are impressive given this has been their best team in over a decade.

I agree more in terms of TV revenue, especially in a few years, but we have yet to see how much of that will be put into basketball. Generally universities like to run at a profit, which is why you rarely see non-revenue sports with high budgets. Basketball has a profit ceiling and I think we'll see the schools primarily put that money into things like the campus and football. Even as it is right now the Big East isn't getting 5 stars but rather winning with 4 stars and transfers.

I'd say Georgetown is a better job, but I do think it's possible that changes in the future. As for whether I think it'd be a good idea to leave a job at PSU, that's something I'm not so sure about, but I'd be extremely impressed if Georgetown can pull it off.

There's almost only so much you can spend on football. I'd say also look at the SEC what they've done in basketball. Got programs doing well that have never done well- Texas A&M a good example. Ole Miss just hired Chris Beard. The money gap is just starting to widen- Big Ten TV deal starts in 23-24, and SEC deal starts in 24-25.

It's definitely concerning but the Big East has always been at a huge revenue disadvantage, very rarely has gotten 5 stars, etc. and still has done very well. A decade ago Buzz left for the ACC due to these exact reasons, and Marquette just had their best regular season in program history.

I do agree the SEC and Big Ten have gotten better, but that's mostly been at the expense of the Pac 12 and ACC. Big 12 is also the best conference.

That said, anything can happen and it'd be a shame if one day Big East schools can no longer win championships, but we'll check back in another 10 years. I have a feeling things will be business as usual.

[Jasper67]

Being one of the worst programs in a major conference is not better than being a top 3 program in a major conference. Georgetown is rich, 99% of alumni don't matter for NIL. TV revenue the schools are getting cant be spent to pay players through NIL.

Penn State is not a better job. Of the states it borders in its own conference, it only could be debatable to be better than one - Rutgers. Stop with this nonsense that any SEC/B1G job is better than a job at an actual college basketball school/brand just cause "TV rights".

You’re looking in the rear view mirror. The times they are a-changin’. Take the blinders off.

And how is Georgetown a top 3 program in the Big East? Eight straight seasons without a winning record in league play says otherwise. They are currently the worst program in the league. Attendance is way down. Support has eroded. And PSU is on the rise.

It’s not just about TV rights. It’s about NIL as well. And mostly it’s about money.

What is Penn State, the 14th best job in the conference? It's not a good job! No one cares in State College, they'll be more excited about the freaking spring practice. The idea that all it takes is a few decent years for a perennial awful basketball program to surpass a brand as big as Georgetown is absurd. Georgetown may not be what it once was, and we can debate how likely it is to get back there (they need to excoriate themselves from having to be tied directly to Bihg John) but we aren't talking about Georgetown taking the Illinois coach, or the Maryland coach, or the Purdue coach. Its Penn State's!

How long did it take UConn to surpass Georgetown when Big John was still there and Georgetown was at its peak? When Calhoun took over, UConn was the worst job in the Big East. If Shrewsberry is as good a coach as people say, he can get it done.

In your world, every B1G/SEC job is better than any other conference job outside like a Kansas/UNC. I'm telling you that in a conference of 14 (soon to be 16 with UCLA/USC!), being the 10th best program (at best) is BAD no matter your money. Donors aren't going to want to line up to drop money into that, especially when they have to for football. And again, your TV rights don't matter for NIL.

You make good points about a conference of 14-16. We saw that in the Big East expanded with football schools that teams in the bottom third had an incredibly hard time climbing out of bottom tier status. And we’re even seeing it in the ACC right now.

Your own biases are showing if you really think Georgetown doesn't have a higher ceiling. They need to get this right because there is a danger of being in wilderness too long it stops mattering (hello Depaul), but they still went to a freaking Final Four 15 years ago. They won the Big East the last time Marquette did in 2013. Its insane to me what people's "what have you done for me lately" timeframe's really are sometimes, when your comparing it to Penn State who before this year hadn't made it to the tourney since 2011!.

You’re mistaking fears for biases. We are at a watershed moment in college sports. My fear is that it’s not going to end well for schools outside the Power Two. I hope I’m wrong. But the turbulence which has brought West Coast schools into the Big Ten to join East Coast schools who made the move 10 years ago has created conditions of uncertainty. If I were a college basketball coach with a job in the B1G which pays me very well and which provides the infrastructure for me to compete and potentially succeed, I’d be very cautious about giving up that job at a program outside the Power Two.

All we have to do is look at other watershed moments for a point of comparison. In the 2 decades before the formation of the Big East, Penn, Rutgers, St. Bonaventure, Princeton, St. Joe’s, and NYU we’re all Northeast schools who went to Final Fours in those 2 decades. None of them have been back there since. Conference formation was the watershed back then. TV exposure and revenue came along with Big East membership. Within a decade, Seton Hall made it to a national championship game and replaced Rutgers, the Big East’s first choice, as New Jersey’s top program. Georgetown, which had gone to just one Final Four in the previous 40 years, was suddenly a monster. UConn, who had no history of success in national competition, was in an Elite 8 by 1990 and won a NC by the end of that decade. The Big East wanted Holy Cross over BC. Holy Cross had previously won both NCAA and NIT championships, back when both tournaments could claim a piece of the national title. But theirs and Rutgers history of past success didn’t matter. Their replacements surpassed them.

Also, the idea Georgetown doesnt have comparable or even more money (esp when they dont have to spend on football) is ridiculous. They have tons. And I honestly respect their fanbase for not showing up for that crap the past 5 seasons, they shouldn't be expected to. They should expect more.

Again, you’re looking at Georgetown in the past. There is absolutely no way that they’ll be able to compete with Big Ten money. Maybe I’m wrong about that. But the point is that it’s a legitimate uncertainty. And if Georgetown’s future is uncertain, why should Shrewsberry take that risk.

While we’re at it, the decline at Georgetown hasn’t been just the past 5 years. They haven’t had a winning season in the Big East for the past 8 years. They’ve been to only 2 NCAA tournaments in the past 10 years. And they’ve been to only 10 tournaments in the past 26 years. It’s been a long time since they were a perennial tournament team. I don’t know how this adds up to a top 3 program in the Big East.

[aughnanure]

There's almost only so much you can spend on football. I'd say also look at the SEC what they've done in basketball. Got programs doing well that have never done well- Texas A&M a good example. Ole Miss just hired Chris Beard. The money gap is just starting to widen- Big Ten TV deal starts in 23-24, and SEC deal starts in 24-25.

It's definitely concerning but the Big East has always been at a huge revenue disadvantage, very rarely has gotten 5 stars, etc. and still has done very well. A decade ago Buzz left for the ACC due to these exact reasons, and Marquette just had their best regular season in program history.

I do agree the SEC and Big Ten have gotten better, but that's mostly been at the expense of the Pac 12 and ACC. Big 12 is also the best conference.

That said, anything can happen and it'd be a shame if one day Big East schools can no longer win championships, but we'll check back in another 10 years. I have a feeling things will be business as usual.

If you look behind the scenes at the time of Buzz leaving, it's really weird. The team did terrible in its first year of the Big East and the sense was around the program he had one foot out the door, and his quotes after the leaving showed he was very down on the new Big East. But Buzz didn't leave for more money, he would've gotten paid at Marquette.

Since he left he's been very up front about wanting to move on regularly and very worried always about getting fired. I think it was Gary Parrish recently on his podcasts a week or so ago that he has never heard a coach talk about getting fired more than Buzz, and believes Buzz will always be a 5-8 year kind of a guy so he can reset the shot clock on a new contract and fanbase.

[Jasper67]

Isn't that proving they're a top 25 job? You're saying they were 36th in revenue despite being the worst Power team in the nation for a number of years now? None of those basketball numbers for Penn St, from attendance to revenue, are impressive given this has been their best team in over a decade.

I agree more in terms of TV revenue, especially in a few years, but we have yet to see how much of that will be put into basketball. Generally universities like to run at a profit, which is why you rarely see non-revenue sports with high budgets. Basketball has a profit ceiling and I think we'll see the schools primarily put that money into things like the campus and football. Even as it is right now the Big East isn't getting 5 stars but rather winning with 4 stars and transfers.

I'd say Georgetown is a better job, but I do think it's possible that changes in the future. As for whether I think it'd be a good idea to leave a job at PSU, that's something I'm not so sure about, but I'd be extremely impressed if Georgetown can pull it off.

There's almost only so much you can spend on football. I'd say also look at the SEC what they've done in basketball. Got programs doing well that have never done well- Texas A&M a good example. Ole Miss just hired Chris Beard. The money gap is just starting to widen- Big Ten TV deal starts in 23-24, and SEC deal starts in 24-25.

That said, anything can happen and it'd be a shame if one day Big East schools can no longer win championships, but we'll check back in another 10 years. I have a feeling things will be business as usual.

I hope you’re right. I’d love to be wrong on this one.

[DeadHeadHoya]

Lemme just come in and touch on subject i keep seeing . Georgetown’s terrible attendance

DC only shows up for winners . They have fans but nobody wants to see a team lose . I used to go to every home Hoya game and I havnt been to one since 2021 . And I went to maybe 1 game that entire year. Look at the nfl team, HUGE fanbase ..:bad attendance

If the hoyas are good that place will be rocking every BE game like it used to until around 14-15