2023 Coaching Carousel

[Angry Dan]

A question: Can't Georgetown do better than Shrewsberry? He's been 2 years at PSU, with one winning season. How does he rate so hight? Just based on what he's doing in the Big Ten tournament? His team was 14-11 a month ago and not in the NCAA, now he's good enough for a top 25 job?

Look at Penn State's basketball program historically and look at this year. It's an incredible coaching performance.

I just had a Keno Davis flashback

[stever20]

Did Shrewsberry hit the transfer portal hard? Because the one thing that sticks out to me on KP- he's got the #1 experienced team in college hoops this year- average of 4.07 yrs.

I can see why he would want to leave Penn St. Loses his top 5 minutes guys from this year, and 6 of his top 9.

[EMT]

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1634579011417374720

Hearing strong indications that PC has run out of patience with Cooley having his hand out every year for his "dream job"

So what are they going to do? Fire him? Doesn’t he have 6 years left on his contract?

Translation: They will not restructure his deal again.

[EMT]

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1634579011417374720

Hearing strong indications that PC has run out of patience with Cooley having his hand out every year for his "dream job"

Translation: "EMT is running out of patience with something."

https://twitter.com/NCoitABC6/status/1635058314278244354?s=20

[billyjack]

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1634579011417374720

Hearing strong indications that PC has run out of patience with Cooley having his hand out every year for his "dream job"

Translation: "EMT is running out of patience with something."

https://twitter.com/NCoitABC6/status/1635058314278244354?s=20

https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ

.

[Jasper67]

If you can win at Penn State, you can certainly win at Georgetown.

Yes, but why would you leave Penn State in the first place? Great facilities. Big Ten. Financial security and program that comes with being in the Big Ten. Great resources to deal with NIL challenges.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not, but I'll treat it as a serious response.

It’s not. And thank you for your response.

Historically, Penn State is a bottom-3 B1G job (w/ Northwestern and Rutgers). There are football-first athletic departments, non-football athletic departments and football-only athletic departments; Penn State values football to the point where it's basketball facilities are very below average and the support of the program was non-existent forever.

You’re looking in the rear view mirror. Where PSU has been historically is not relevant to where they can be in the future. In the new world of college sports where the B1G and the SEC are the Power Two, there is a tremendous revenue gap between them an everyone else. They have the financial resources to do whatever they want in basketball.

In the world of NIL, Georgetown has the resources of 200,000 living alumni to draw upon. In contrast PSU has the largest alumni base in the country, more than 750,000 living alumni, and with an enrollment of 47,000 at State College alone vs 19,000 (undergrads + grads) at Georgetown, their alumni base is growing at a faster rate.

As far as facilities are concerned, Georgetown has the magnificent Thompson Center, opened in 2016. PSU has the Bryce Jordan Center, opened in 1993, but which was renovated just 2 years ago with special attention to basketball practice and training facilities. Penn State basketball facilities are not inferior at all.

As far as support for the respective programs is concerned, PSU drew an average of 8500 fans to its home games last year while Georgetown drew 5500. It’s not the 1980s any more. In the 21st century, Georgetown basketball has declined and their support has eroded with that decline.

The quality of life in University Park also was ranked in the bottom half of the B1G (even before UCLA and USC additions) by conference administrators and coaches. This will only be the program's tenth NCAAT appearance in history (as the school very much ignored basketball for many decades). There was a story years back where Paterno kicked out a men's basketball game that was scheduled so the football team could have a walkthrough.

Again, you’re looking in the rear view mirror. Paterno has been dead and buried for more than 10 years. His statue was removed and he was unceremoniously fired in disgrace the year before he died. Joe Paterno is not the football coach and he is not the AD. This is no longer Paterno’s Penn State. They now have one of the youngest ADs in college sports who is looking to the future and not the past. He has a vision of excellence for all college sports at PSU and he has the resources to achieve that vision.

Now, they have invested in Shrewsberry in recent years to their credit. However, Georgetown, despite the dumpster fire admin created with Ewing, still has the better facilities, brand, location and financial support behind the scenes. Georgetown remains a top-25 job in the country (whereas Penn State is probably somewhere between 40 and 60 with recent investments, IMO). For instance, Penn State is barely within the top-50 in men's basketball revenues annually; Georgetown (again, despite the Ewing era) is still in the top-35.

What makes Georgetown a top 25 job in college basketball? They were 36th in basketball revenue last year while Penn State was 45th. That doesn’t seem like a big difference to me. And the revenue difference becomes less significant when we consider that basketball is the only revenue stream at Bug East schools and must be used to support all other sports. Penn State has the benefit of that football revenue in addition to basketball revenue to support its other sports. Going forward, we already know that the Big Ten has a TV package whic is speculated to bring to each member more than $100 mill. The Bug East contract is unknown, but is not going to come close to providing the financial resources that will be available to Bug Ten schools.

I not only dispute that they have better financial resources but I also dispute people that they have better facilitues, given the recent renovations at Bryce Jordan Center. And what about location? Sure, DC us a great location - if that’s where you want to be. If you’re an African American kid, you’re on a small campus of 7,000 mostly rich, white kids with only 6.5% of the population being African American. And you have a limited curriculum which caters to students headed for careers in finance and government. Is that where most college basketball players are headed? Aside from Duke, schools of this type have not been very successful at producing great college basketball teams or at sustaining success when they have achieved it. Look at the track records of places like Stanford, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, BC, and Wake Forest for comparisons.

Let’s take a closer look at the issue of location. Some of the greatest programs in the history of college basketball have been built and sustained in places like Chapel Hill, NC; Durham, NC; Lawrence, KS; Storrs, CT; and Flint, MI. Meanwhile, St. John’s has experienced decades of frustration despite being in NYC. Same thing has been true at DePaul despite being in Chicago. No one was bigger than University of San Francisco back in the post WW II decade but despite being in one of the counytr’s great cities, they couldn’t sustain their success.

And Georgetown has the better brand? Sure, to old people who can remember back 30-40 years ago. But what does that mean to the 18-year-olds who coaches are out there recruiting? Not much. Not when the program has had only one season with a winning record in the past 8 years and has not had a single winning season in conference in that entire time. A brand is only as good as your current coach. And there have been 3 coaches at Georgetown since Big John retired, none of whom did anything to enhance the brand that he built. Coach K got Duke all 5 of its championships after Big John took Georgetown to the last of his Final Fours, and he did it without Duke having much of a brand when he arrived. UConn had no brand when Jim Calhoun took over, also after the last of JT’s last Final Four, but Calhoun nonetheless took UConn to 4 NC’s. Plenty of other schools have won NCs since Georgetowns hay day at schools with no brand in basketball - Arkansas, Arizona, Maryland, Florida, and Baylor to name only the most glaring examples

My point really isn’t to knock Georgetown because they do have great history and that speaks for itself. If they can hire a great coach, they will be a winner again because great coaches win wherever the go. My original question was “Why would Shrewsberry leave Penn State?” He has all of the resource that he needs to build a winner. He’s well compensated and will continue to be well paid. He’s already started the building process at PSU. Why would he scrap that, only to start all over with another build-from-scratch challenge? He’s inheriting nothing of value from Patrick. The fan base has pretty much given up there at this point. He may have his own reasons for making a change, but when I look at the future of college sports and the great divide between the new Power Two and everyone else, Georgetown seems like a much riskier proposition to me.

[adoraz]

Jasper, I agree with some of what you're saying, but when you start out with a quote like this: What makes Georgetown a top 25 job in college basketball? They were 36th in basketball revenue last year while Penn State was 45th.

Isn't that proving they're a top 25 job? You're saying they were 36th in revenue despite being the worst Power team in the nation for a number of years now? None of those basketball numbers for Penn St, from attendance to revenue, are impressive given this has been their best team in over a decade.

I agree more in terms of TV revenue, especially in a few years, but we have yet to see how much of that will be put into basketball. Generally universities like to run at a profit, which is why you rarely see non-revenue sports with high budgets. Basketball has a profit ceiling and I think we'll see the schools primarily put that money into things like the campus and football. Even as it is right now the Big East isn't getting 5 stars but rather winning with 4 stars and transfers.

I'd say Georgetown is a better job, but I do think it's possible that changes in the future. As for whether I think it'd be a good idea to leave a job at PSU, that's something I'm not so sure about, but I'd be extremely impressed if Georgetown can pull it off.

[stever20]

Jasper, I agree with some of what you're saying, but when you start out with a quote like this: What makes Georgetown a top 25 job in college basketball? They were 36th in basketball revenue last year while Penn State was 45th.

Isn't that proving they're a top 25 job? You're saying they were 36th in revenue despite being the worst Power team in the nation for a number of years now? None of those basketball numbers for Penn St, from attendance to revenue, are impressive given this has been their best team in over a decade.

I agree more in terms of TV revenue, especially in a few years, but we have yet to see how much of that will be put into basketball. Generally universities like to run at a profit, which is why you rarely see non-revenue sports with high budgets. Basketball has a profit ceiling and I think we'll see the schools primarily put that money into things like the campus and football. Even as it is right now the Big East isn't getting 5 stars but rather winning with 4 stars and transfers.

I'd say Georgetown is a better job, but I do think it's possible that changes in the future. As for whether I think it'd be a good idea to leave a job at PSU, that's something I'm not so sure about, but I'd be extremely impressed if Georgetown can pull it off.

There's almost only so much you can spend on football. I'd say also look at the SEC what they've done in basketball. Got programs doing well that have never done well- Texas A&M a good example. Ole Miss just hired Chris Beard. The money gap is just starting to widen- Big Ten TV deal starts in 23-24, and SEC deal starts in 24-25.

[Jasper67]

Jasper, I agree with some of what you're saying, but when you start out with a quote like this: What makes Georgetown a top 25 job in college basketball? They were 36th in basketball revenue last year while Penn State was 45th.

Isn't that proving they're a top 25 job? You're saying they were 36th in revenue despite being the worst Power team in the nation for a number of years now? None of those basketball numbers for Penn St, from attendance to revenue, are impressive given this has been their best team in over a decade.

I agree more in terms of TV revenue, especially in a few years, but we have yet to see how much of that will be put into basketball. Generally universities like to run at a profit, which is why you rarely see non-revenue sports with high budgets. Basketball has a profit ceiling and I think we'll see the schools primarily put that money into things like the campus and football. Even as it is right now the Big East isn't getting 5 stars but rather winning with 4 stars and transfers.

I'd say Georgetown is a better job, but I do think it's possible that changes in the future. As for whether I think it'd be a good idea to leave a job at PSU, that's something I'm not so sure about, but I'd be extremely impressed if Georgetown can pull it off.

In trying to draw the contrasts between the 2 programs, I was probably harder on Georgetown than I should have been. My point would have been better made if I had phrased it more like this:

Regardless of how good the Georgetown job is, why would a coach bail on building a program at a B1G school just 2 years into the job? PSU completed major upgrades to its basketball facilities just 2 years ago, so they are investing in the program. They play in one of the top leagues in the country, so top competition and major TV exposure are locked in. But the biggest issue is that these are uncertain times in college sports. I just don’t think you leave a job at one of the new Power Two regardless of how appealing another job is until we have a better sense of the landscape. Right now these are plum jobs that any coach would give his right arm to get. Shrewsberry has all of the resources he needs to build a winning program there.

Shrewsberry is a young guy, only 46 years old. If he can be successful at Penn State, he can stay there and become an institution. Or he can move on to what he considers something better when the timing is right. If he puts 5-6 years there under his belt and has his team playing to packed houses, he can probably have his pick of jobs. But leaving PSU isn’t like leaving URI.

[billyjack]

Jasper--

I'm a little lost on your posts. Are you saying that reports of Shrewsberry moving to Georgetown are not correct or unlikely?

Shrewsberry was born in 1976. For his entire life, Penn State hoops has sucked the big one.

Also for his entire life, Georgetown hoops was top level, getting great seeds and putting guys in the NBA, from his birth til maybe 2015 or so. It's still a national brand.