2023 Coaching Carousel

[billyjack]

Let me give another related example of this mindset without getting too off track...

Local NY Football Giants fans often say about the Patriots' 6 Super Bowl wins, that we got Belichick from the Giants, to which we answer that the Giants got Bill Parcells from the Patriots coaching staff in 1980.

Also, any Pitino-coached rival that does well and crows about it (this recently would be Louisville)-- Friar fans will counter with the fact that our AD found him in the first place. Almost definitely, if St John's hires Pitino and gets them to a National Championship, Friar fans will take partial credit. Yes, it has a pinch of truth, yes it sounds insane to a lot of fans but again it's baked intp our minds, lol.

Again, i realize this sounds insane to many, but it is baked into our brains.

[billyjack]

Too long, didnt read:

Providence residents believe there's nothing you can do at Georgetown that you can't do at Providence.

[hoops22]

Billyjack, I hope you're right that Cooley stays at Providence for a long time, and you guys continue along with all your success. I've always liked Providence, and how you put BC in it's place once they bailed on us. I do think the ceiling is higher at Georgetown than it is at Providence (as it is for most of us), but we can debate on that one. Still, I think there would be mutual interest between Georgetown and Cooley, with the the main impediment being the optics of it all. Anyway, we'll find out soon enough. Good luck in the tournament next week, hope you guys fight your way to another sweet sixteen.

[billyjack]

Billyjack, I hope you're right that Cooley stays at Providence for a long time, and you guys continue along with all your success. I've always liked Providence, and how you put BC in it's place once they bailed on us. I do think the ceiling is higher at Georgetown than it is at Providence (as it is for most of us), but we can debate on that one. Still, I think there would be mutual interest between Georgetown and Cooley, with the the main impediment being the optics of it all. Anyway, we'll find out soon enough. Good luck in the tournament next week, hope you guys fight your way to another sweet sixteen.

Always good reading your posts hoops22. Thx for the good vibes, and pulling for you to go get Pitino on your bench. Shanley can make it happen.

[Jasper67]

I said in this thread back on Feb 7 that i thought Cooley to Georgetown was a distinct possibility. I still stand by that, even though most people may still think I'm way off the mark. If it does happen, I wonder what names will pop up on Providence's list.

Given his deep roots in Providence, why do you think that Cooley is headed to Georgetown?

There’s also the issue of one league member poaching another member’s coach. I think that would be frowned on, to say the least. I expect that there would be a lot of blow back on Georgetown for even attempting such a move.

I'll give you kind of a longwinded answer if that's okay. I think Cooley may feel he's reached his ceiling at Providence. One unexpected benefit of the recent realignment was how it helped the northeastern schools with Syracuse and UCONN gone. Top flight talent that wanted to stay in the northeast, play in front of friends and family in NBA arenas, at basketball first schools, now had different options they were prioritizing. Right after they both left, UCONN won a national championship with BE recruited players, and Syracuse started in the ACC with a 24-0 record, also with a BE recruited roster. After that it was all downhill for those two, recruiting wise, and they were no longer the dominant teams in the northeast. The beneficiaries of that became Nova, who became a true national power and Providence who became the dominant team in New England. Seton Hall also benefited, although St. John's did not, mainly due to the disastrous Mullin hire, although they did start beating Syracuse regularly. With UCONN being back again, it is resulting in them sucking a lot of the oxygen out of the room, especially in New England. Being back in the BE has resulted in them becoming the old UCONN again. This year will be the 7th time since realignment, Cooley has taken Providence to the NCAA's with a couple of NIT appearances as well. They have never had that kind of success when sharing the conference with a powerful UCONN. Also, there is uncertainty with future realignment and who may be left out, and that is something coaches likely have in the back of their mind.

I feel Cooley has achieved all he can at Providence, and would now be open to s destination where the Sweet Sixteen isn't the ceiling, but a Final Four and possible championship is. I think he likes the BE, likes being at a basketball first school, and likes a school where there remains a level of integrity, unlike a lot of the football factories. Georgetown remains a plum job with enormous upside and plenty of money, despite the recent failures. They are also better equipped to thrive in the new NIL world, although we don't know yet exactly how that will be playing out. Also if there is future realignment with basketball only schools to P5 conferences, Georgetown would likely be included, whereas Providence very possibly might not be. These are the reasons I think Cooley would consider Georgetown.

Regarding Georgetown, they have always had a bond within the African American community. I think all things being equal they would prefer to hire a black coach, although it likely isn't a prerequisite. With Cooley they get a high integrity guy, with a proven track record of success, who's resurrected a program into becoming a national power (Providence). How many coaches check all of those above boxes? Who can Georgetown hire that would be better than Cooley? It just seems to me the stars have lined up, where this is a move that makes sense for both parties.

As far as one league member poaching another members coach, I think we posters here have more loyalty to each other, and each others schools, than the schools have to themselves. It's strictly dollars and cents to all of them. This is somewhat unrelated, but when the BE was imploding after getting raided and it was debatable if a BE would even exist anymore, there was a real desperation among the remaining catholic schools. Notre Dame knew full well the spot we were in. Do you know how they let the league know that they too were leaving? By fax, not even the decency to make a call, offer any kind of scheduling assistance. It was simply sayonara. If Georgetown wants Cooley, they won't care what Providence thinks.

Thank you for your detailed explanation. Much appreciated.

I can’t respond in detail right now due to other commitments, so I’ll just raise a couple of points.

1. In support of your argument, Ed Copley’s daughter is a student at Georgetown - albeit a senior who is graduating in May. And Ed is a long time admirer of John Thompson.

2. I disagree that Georgetown has a long bond with the African American community. It took a lot of pushing to get them to acknowledge their transgressions against the African American community and to finally establish a compensation program for historic wrongs. The undergraduate student body is only 6.5% African American (from their website). Absolutely nothing special about that number. When Big John retired, he was replaced by a white assistant, not an African American. Georgetown’s bond is with the John Thompson coaching tree, not with the African American community.

3. I mentioned Ed Copley’s deep roots in Providence and that point still remains. Providence is in Ed Copley’s blood. He grew up in the city, so poor as a welfare kid that he was eventually taken in by another family. He grew up a fan of PC basketball because in those days Friar basketball was the class of New England. He played college basketball in New England and has spent his whole coaching career in New England. His wife has her college degree from Providence College. I don’t want to beat a dead horse here, so I’ll leave it at that.

4. I these days of college coaches always looking for the next better deal, it’s hard to imagine that there are any coaches who are loyal to the school they’re at. But they pop up every now and then. As an example, despite all of the rumors that he’d leave Villanova to coach in the NBA, Jay Wright wasn’t leaving Villanova for the Sixers or anywhere else. Ed Cooley may prove me a liar, but he looks to me to be one of those guys. He’s found his dream job, and I think that’s where he wants to stay. Ed has has other programs knocking at his door for years. In spite of that, he signed a 10 year contract with Providence 4 years ago.

5. The idea that Ed has taken Providence as far as it can go may be true in this age of NIL. We’ll see. But if Providence has reached its limit, so has the rest of the Big East. None of our small Catholic colleges have the resources of a Texas or any of the other big football programs with state funding and tens of thousands of students and therefore millions of alums. Providence College may be the smallest college in The Big East, but Villanova isn’t much bigger and the difference with the rest isn’t significant enough to give them much of an advantage. If Ed has reached the limits of PC’s potential, then I doubt that Georgetown, which only has a few thousand more students than PC, is the answer. They basically have the same constraints as Providence has.

Time will tell, so we’ll have to wait to see how this plays out.

[hoops22]

I think you're wrong regarding black America and Georgetown. Here's just one article. Plenty of them out there if you want to google them.

https://georgetownvoice.com/2020/08/29/ ... icas-team/

Also you're right Jay turned down the Sixers and Ed turned down Michigan. But the world has turned upside down over the past few years with the transfer portal and NIL. Because of that Jay got out altogether, with Ed we don't know, but he may want to find a more level playing field. We'll find out soon enough.

[stever20]

Anderson is gone at St John's.

[Jasper67]

I get it. But I’ll give you 2 quotes from that article:

“We were once Black America’s team!” - Gene Smith ‘84 emphasis on “we’re” and “once”

“In it’s dominant years . . . It was almost known as an HBCU.”

I completely agree with that view. BUT look at what both of those quotes are talking about - the 1980s and the connection with the basketball team, NOT with the university. And all of that was 40 years ago. None of that prevented Georgetown from hiring Craig Esheruck as Big John’s replacement 25 years ago. It’s not the 1980s any more.

I submit that there is no special relationship between Georgetown as an institution and the black community. It is a school for rich white kids who want to work in Finance or Government. Just look at that 6.5% black enrollment number.

For a while the basketball program had a persona from Ewing to Iverson that projected into the black community. But that doesn’t mean that the white people who run the university have any preference for a black coach. Again, these are the same people who hired Esherick. Basketball teams are useful PR tools and serve as a great vehicle to bring alumni back and to court big donors. So, a school will do anything to maintain a winning program and to keep big donors happy. Ewing’s demise means the end of the Thompson era, so the school will turn to whomever they think will bring crowds back to the arena where attendance has bottomed out at 5400 this year.

[Jasper67]

Anderson is gone at St John's.

It should be interesting to see who Pitino brings in as his top assistant. That’s probably who he plans to hand the program off to if he has a successful run.

[hoops22]

Although I've been hoping to see Pitino replace Anderson, I still feel a little bad. By all accounts Anderson was a good guy and someone easy to root for. It's a shame it just didn't work out.