Big Ten TV deals done

[adoraz]

I agree with some of these points, but so far playing ACC teams has absolutely benefited the Big East. Our league as a whole has a really good winning percentage against former Big East schools. So good in fact that some ACC teams stopped scheduling us (Syracuse/Duke series vs St. John's). A challenge could bring those games back.

I still see no reason why they wouldn't just add us as a "basketball division" if they break off into a Power 2

I think that's a leap to assume they'd do that. I do agree it's possible and is something that the Big East can consider, but by no means would it be a sure thing (or even likely?). The Big Ten hasn't gone all in yet on our challenge because I don't think a lot of those schools (such as Michigan St who was forced into it) respect us as equals. Also, I remember seeing that a Big East - Pac 12 challenge didn't work out because a couple schools (I think B1G UCLA?) objected. The GG also have yet to be renewed. I'm not saying they haven't been a solid partner for us, they have, but assuming they'd add us as a division would be a stretch. I've only seen that idea floated by a few posters on here and Twitter.

Also, yes technically the B1G does overlap well with the Big East, but for eastern schools (6 BE schools) the B1G basketball brands aren't close to ACC in terms of rivalries.

Seton Hall
St. John's
Villanova
Georgetown
Providence
UConn

Rutgers (OBE)
Penn St
Maryland

Syracuse (OBE)
Notre Dame (OBE)
Louisville (OBE)
Boston College (OBE)
Pittsburgh (OBE)
Miami (OBE)
Virginia Tech (OBE)
Duke
UNC
etc.

I'm just saying a ton of people would be excited to see that challenge. It'd make for great TV. We already have the Big XII challenge for midwestern schools.

As I've said, the Big East needs to do what is best for the Big East. Period. If that means Fox then go with Fox. If that means ESPN then go with ESPN. None of these networks are our friends. Fox would stop talking about us the second our contract ends, the same way ESPN has.

Ideally I'd like to see us go with both Fox and ESPN, but I trust the Big East to do whatever works best for our conference.

[kayako]

Syracuse (OBE)
Notre Dame (OBE)
Louisville (OBE)
Boston College (OBE)
Pittsburgh (OBE)
Miami (OBE)
Virginia Tech (OBE)
Duke
UNC
etc.

To be fair, only school that people care about is Syracuse, which plays Georgetown every year anyway. Pitt and BC, they'd probably agree to home & home with any of the eastern BE schools. It's just that for example PC is probably reluctant to play BC every season. None of the other schools are really OBE.

I don't think these conference challenges are all that important. We have one with the B12, and that's enough IMO. Kenpom and NET couldn't care less about these games.

[gtmoBlue]

Good discussion guys. PS: your biases are showing.

As to playing ACC schools: not particularly a +1 topic at my house, whether you're talkin' the former Be schools or traditional ACC schools. The only 3 schools, maybe 5 I'd be interested in playing are Duke, UVA, UNCCheat, and S'cuse/ND. As for playing post-2025 BE negotiations? I expect UNC/UVA to be committed to the B1G by then, with Duke, ND, and S'cuse actively plotting their exodus to the Big East, if not already committed.

ESPN (post B1G loss)-will now be actively and surreptitiously formulating the destruction of the ACC as currently configured to benefit their flagship SEC partner. The ACC GoR will be destroyed within the next 1-2 years by ESPN. In all likelihood, the ACC will be pillaged and the remainders won't be teams worth playing. Let's keep the B12 challenge and the Gavitts.

As for contract negotiations: Get the best deal possible @ the new Tier 2 rate ($10-11.5M/year). The current Tier 2 is $7.5m/year - which the B1G has altered for the foreseeable future. While anything is possible and espn may bid (and possibly run up the bidding hopefully) versus Fox. I see competition as a good thing. Some previously have said that Fox still has a need for our content - which is good. Could espn gain a portion of the upcoming Big East contract? Certainly. Could it be a 3-way split rather than the current 2-way split. High probability of such occurring. I don't foresee a situation where espn outbids Fox on the primary portion of the deal, but they may very well snatch the 2nd or 3rd tier of the deal. However, if my guess regarding espn destroying the ACC is correct, the WWL may go all in on a Big East bidding war.

However, I don't see any scenario where espn has solo rights (thank God). If ESPN takes the top package - i'd look forward to many BE games on ESPN2/3 and their lower-level channels - definitely not our optimum viewing venues. If there is a 3-way rights configuration, that (imho) gets us where we need to be in terms of new Tier 2 money. Garnering $10m or better per school clears the runway for the renegade ACC 3-some to land in the Big East.

As to comparing ESPNs' breaking up the Big East vs Fox breaking up the Pac-12... I'll pass. Both are abominable. However, if things pan out as I think, the WWL will be up on Fox 3-1 (old Big East, Big-12, ACC for ESPN to PAC-12 for Fox).

Big East as a hoops 'division' of another conference (P2/P3). This is a pipe-dream. Forget this fantasy island stuff guys. Not gonna happen.
...and if it did occur, it would not be as advantageous to the BE as you may think. Been there - Done that. Nonsense.

- gtmoBlue

[adoraz]

Syracuse (OBE)
Notre Dame (OBE)
Louisville (OBE)
Boston College (OBE)
Pittsburgh (OBE)
Miami (OBE)
Virginia Tech (OBE)
Duke
UNC
etc.

To be fair, only school that people care about is Syracuse, which plays Georgetown every year anyway. Pitt and BC, they'd probably agree to home & home with any of the eastern BE schools. It's just that for example PC is probably reluctant to play BC every season. None of the other schools are really OBE.

I don't think these conference challenges are all that important. We have one with the B12, and that's enough IMO. Kenpom and NET couldn't care less about these games.

I agree about BC and Pitt, but in addition to Syracuse I'd say most Big East fans would be excited to play Notre Dame and Louisville. Also of course Duke and UNC who have history with some of our schools (as you know being a Nova fan) and also are more successful basketball programs than any team in the Big Ten. UVA would be a great game too, the ACC has more Tournament titles than any conference in recent memory. The B1G meanwhile hasn't even won a Tournament during the last couple decades. Further, I think having it in a challenge format would make for really good TV. Whenever I search for "Big East" on Twitter half the posts are people reminiscing for the "old Big East".

Just to be clear I'm not saying a Big East vs ACC challenge would be better than the Gavitt Games. I absolutely think that's debatable and I'm just providing one side of the debate. I do acknowledge the GG has advantages too. Ultimately I just want to see a bidding war and think ESPN could be involved for a number of reasons, including a BE vs ACC (NBE vs OBE) challenge.

[adoraz]

Good discussion guys. PS: your biases are showing.

As to playing ACC schools: not particularly a +1 topic at my house, whether you're talkin' the former Be schools or traditional ACC schools. The only 3 schools, maybe 5 I'd be interested in playing are Duke, UVA, UNCCheat, and S'cuse/ND. As for playing post-2025 BE negotiations? I expect UNC/UVA to be committed to the B1G by then, with Duke, ND, and S'cuse actively plotting their exodus to the Big East, if not already committed.

ESPN (post B1G loss)-will now be actively and surreptitiously formulating the destruction of the ACC as currently configured to benefit their flagship SEC partner. The ACC GoR will be destroyed within the next 1-2 years by ESPN. In all likelihood, the ACC will be pillaged and the remainders won't be teams worth playing. Let's keep the B12 challenge and the Gavitts.

As for contract negotiations: Get the best deal possible @ the new Tier 2 rate ($10-11.5M/year). The current Tier 2 is $7.5m/year - which the B1G has altered for the foreseeable future. While anything is possible and espn may bid (and possibly run up the bidding hopefully) versus Fox. I see competition as a good thing. Some previously have said that Fox still has a need for our content - which is good. Could espn gain a portion of the upcoming Big East contract? Certainly. Could it be a 3-way split rather than the current 2-way split. High probability of such occurring. I don't foresee a situation where espn outbids Fox on the primary portion of the deal, but they may very well snatch the 2nd or 3rd tier of the deal. However, if my guess regarding espn destroying the ACC is correct, the WWL may go all in on a Big East bidding war.

However, I don't see any scenario where espn has solo rights (thank God). If ESPN takes the top package - i'd look forward to many BE games on ESPN2/3 and their lower-level channels - definitely not our optimum viewing venues. If there is a 3-way rights configuration, that (imho) gets us where we need to be in terms of new Tier 2 money. Garnering $10m or better per school clears the runway for the renegade ACC 3-some to land in the Big East.

As to comparing ESPNs' breaking up the Big East vs Fox breaking up the Pac-12... I'll pass. Both are abominable. However, if things pan out as I think, the WWL will be up on Fox 3-1 (old Big East, Big-12, ACC for ESPN to PAC-12 for Fox).

Big East as a hoops 'division' of another conference (P2/P3). This is a pipe-dream. Forget this fantasy island stuff guys. Not gonna happen.
...and if it did occur, it would not be as advantageous to the BE as you may think. Been there - Done that. Nonsense.

- gtmoBlue

I agree with most of this. There is smoke that some brands could leave the ACC. Certainly they want to (FSU's president essentially said that this morning), but it's just a matter of legal issues. ESPN definitely wants the ACC to remain together as is, they've got the conference locked down at a steal, but now that some schools are making public statements about exploring options it could force ESPN to lower the exit fee terms or risk upsetting long-term partners. How much that matters to ESPN I don't know, but I could see them agreeing to let a few brands leave for the SEC (but not the B1G). It's all pretty complicated stuff and I don't think anyone knows what will happen.

One thing for certain is Val and the rest of the BE leadership have been phenomenal in taking a wait and see approach to everything thus far. They did it with expansion (UConn), and are doing it again by waiting out our TV contract negotiations. I trust they'll make the best decision.

[redmen9194]

Fox is far superior to ESPN in almost every way. All our conference games are on national TV and not behind a paywall. We get good times for games and the FOX play by play guys and studio analysts are light years better than ESPN guys who make the games about themselves. And Fox does very subtle but noticeable marketing of the Big East in other formats. When the SF Giants won the World Series on Fox, they interviewed Joe Panik on the field afterward with the banner underneath reading first player from St. John's University to win World Series since...." Fox has been a real partner who has done a good job with the Big East. No need for ESPN at all.

[Wizard of Westroads]

Fox is far superior to ESPN in almost every way. All our conference games are on national TV and not behind a paywall. We get good times for games and the FOX play by play guys and studio analysts are light years better than ESPN guys who make the games about themselves. And Fox does very subtle but noticeable marketing of the Big East in other formats. When the SF Giants won the World Series on Fox, they interviewed Joe Panik on the field afterward with the banner underneath reading first player from St. John's University to win World Series since...." Fox has been a real partner who has done a good job with the Big East. No need for ESPN at all.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Fox is far superior to ESPN in almost every way. All our conference games are on national TV and not behind a paywall. We get good times for games and the FOX play by play guys and studio analysts are light years better than ESPN guys who make the games about themselves. And Fox does very subtle but noticeable marketing of the Big East in other formats. When the SF Giants won the World Series on Fox, they interviewed Joe Panik on the field afterward with the banner underneath reading first player from St. John's University to win World Series since...." Fox has been a real partner who has done a good job with the Big East. No need for ESPN at all.

You sir, know from what you speak. Well said.

[adoraz]

If we're going to bring up other sports, Joe Panik went to St. John's during the old Big East, back when we were ranked and not a terrible baseball team. FloSports is awful compared to ESPN+. Most people never even heard of FloSports. It will probably be a very long time until St. John's baseball has any relevance again.

Again though, this doesn't need to be ESPN or Fox. It can be both. Think of ESPN as replacing CBS. That'd be ideal IMO since Fox and ESPN are the networks driving realignment. I think that'd provide the most stability for our league. For example, when the ACC is poached I think it'd be less likely they'd poach UConn, try to take MSG, etc. if we have a contract with ESPN too.

[mel ott]

Fox is far superior to ESPN in almost every way. All our conference games are on national TV and not behind a paywall. We get good times for games and the FOX play by play guys and studio analysts are light years better than ESPN guys who make the games about themselves. And Fox does very subtle but noticeable marketing of the Big East in other formats. When the SF Giants won the World Series on Fox, they interviewed Joe Panik on the field afterward with the banner underneath reading first player from St. John's University to win World Series since...." Fox has been a real partner who has done a good job with the Big East. No need for ESPN at all.

Any possibility of a getting a like button for comments? It would be real nice and the last couple of comments about Fox being better than ESPN I would like . It would make it quicker, less time reading and scrolling, and probably more people engaging if the Admins could do that. Also, I thank you for all you do.