Alternative Views

[marquette]

I don't see a conference with VCU, Saint Louis, La Salle(all 3 tourney teams), then a 2nd tier with Dayton, St Joe's, UMass, and Richmond- as being a dumpster fire. Is it as good as the Big East? No, of course not. Is it as good as the MWC? Quite possibly. It's clearly a top 10 conference. Probably gets 3-4 teams in the tourney this year. Now, the Horizon or MVC or CAA- now those are dumpster fires.

Yeah, I think that MVC bringing Loyola definitely puts them in the dumpster fire category. I think they had a legitimate opportunity to replace Creighton with a decent team (although not the team Creighton is) in Valparaiso, maybe others, but instead they shot themselves in the foot. Simultaneously weakened the MVC and strengthened the Horizon League (who added an ok team in Oakland, but a huge step up from Loyola). I would definitely still categorize both as dumpster fires, though.

[DumpsterFireA10]

I don't see a conference with VCU, Saint Louis, La Salle(all 3 tourney teams), then a 2nd tier with Dayton, St Joe's, UMass, and Richmond- as being a dumpster fire. Is it as good as the Big East? No, of course not. Is it as good as the MWC? Quite possibly. It's clearly a top 10 conference. Probably gets 3-4 teams in the tourney this year. Now, the Horizon or MVC or CAA- now those are dumpster fires.

Yeah, I think that MVC bringing Loyola definitely puts them in the dumpster fire category. I think they had a legitimate opportunity to replace Creighton with a decent team (although not the team Creighton is) in Valparaiso, maybe others, but instead they shot themselves in the foot. Simultaneously weakened the MVC and strengthened the Horizon League (who added an ok team in Oakland, but a huge step up from Loyola). I would definitely still categorize both as dumpster fires, though.

The new classification of conferences:

Power Conferences and Dumpster Fires. Quick, Clean, and easy.

[Friarfan2]

Creighton. They are at a cross roads. A legitimate final four threat, but the same core unit that has disappointed in the tournament the past couple of yrs. they could do the league a huge solid and make the final four (heck, why not win it all?), or they could bow out in the sweet 16, gain little exposure among casual fans, and then slip down to mediocrity and end up looking like a poor choice over St. Louis.

Really could go either way for them. I am hoping they make a name for themselves this yr. opportunities like this don't grow on trees.

[stever20]

I'm sorry but I think there's a huge difference between what you are saying where AAC then would be equal to the MAAC.

There is still a 2nd tier of conferences in between the power conferences and the automatic 1 bid conferences. It's AAC(which some years will be stronger than some of the Big 6), A10, MWC. Occasionally WCC and MVC(though not as sure of the MVC). Everything else- that's the dumpster fire.

The thing is, there is only 1 conference that a A10 team could go to as an upgrade. That's the Big East. And, getting George Mason and Davidson next year are good moves. The A10 is clearly in that 7-9 range which most years will get them 3+ teams in to the tourney. That's hardly a dumpster fire.

[DumpsterFireA10]

I'm sorry but I think there's a huge difference between what you are saying where AAC then would be equal to the MAAC.

There is still a 2nd tier of conferences in between the power conferences and the automatic 1 bid conferences. It's AAC(which some years will be stronger than some of the Big 6), A10, MWC. Occasionally WCC and MVC(though not as sure of the MVC). Everything else- that's the dumpster fire.

The thing is, there is only 1 conference that a A10 team could go to as an upgrade. That's the Big East. And, getting George Mason and Davidson next year are good moves. The A10 is clearly in that 7-9 range which most years will get them 3+ teams in to the tourney. That's hardly a dumpster fire.

I guess where we disagree most is the concept of 2nd tier. I see 2nd tier as a huge negative.

[stever20]

The 2nd tier has shown the ability to make it very deep into the tourney on a consistent basis. VCU, Wichita St, George Mason, Memphis just to name 4. Being in the 2nd tier didn't hold Xavier or Butler back, now did it?

The 2nd tier has had 6 appearances in the final 4 in the last 8 years. I think with TV and all, it's gotten easier for the 2nd tier now quite frankly.

[DumpsterFireA10]

The 2nd tier has shown the ability to make it very deep into the tourney on a consistent basis. VCU, Wichita St, George Mason, Memphis just to name 4. Being in the 2nd tier didn't hold Xavier or Butler back, now did it?

The 2nd tier has had 6 appearances in the final 4 in the last 8 years. I think with TV and all, it's gotten easier for the 2nd tier now quite frankly.

The rumored P5 split in terms of basketball scares me more. The Big East is certainly going to be included, but anyone else may not. Does the P5 take the A-10 for basketball? If they don't, the "other" leagues become glorified D2 schools. That's the other reason I'm so down on the A-10. It's about positioning for the future.

[stever20]

I really don't see them messing with basketball all that much. The biggest thing I could see them doing is changing the first 4 where instead of it being last 4 at larges and the last 4 teams overall making it just the last 8 teams overall.

[MUBoxer]

I don't see a conference with VCU, Saint Louis, La Salle(all 3 tourney teams), then a 2nd tier with Dayton, St Joe's, UMass, and Richmond- as being a dumpster fire. Is it as good as the Big East? No, of course not. Is it as good as the MWC? Quite possibly. It's clearly a top 10 conference. Probably gets 3-4 teams in the tourney this year. Now, the Horizon or MVC or CAA- now those are dumpster fires.

Yeah, I think that MVC bringing Loyola definitely puts them in the dumpster fire category. I think they had a legitimate opportunity to replace Creighton with a decent team (although not the team Creighton is) in Valparaiso, maybe others, but instead they shot themselves in the foot. Simultaneously weakened the MVC and strengthened the Horizon League (who added an ok team in Oakland, but a huge step up from Loyola). I would definitely still categorize both as dumpster fires, though.

Loyola's on the rise, I don't know if they'll hang onto their coach but he's actually doing decently at rebuilding. Also they bring in previous prestige which some mid major conferences love.

[marquette]

The 2nd tier has shown the ability to make it very deep into the tourney on a consistent basis. VCU, Wichita St, George Mason, Memphis just to name 4. Being in the 2nd tier didn't hold Xavier or Butler back, now did it?

The 2nd tier has had 6 appearances in the final 4 in the last 8 years. I think with TV and all, it's gotten easier for the 2nd tier now quite frankly.

The rumored P5 split in terms of basketball scares me more. The Big East is certainly going to be included, but anyone else may not. Does the P5 take the A-10 for basketball? If they don't, the "other" leagues become glorified D2 schools. That's the other reason I'm so down on the A-10. It's about positioning for the future.

In the event of a full slpit the rumor around the web is that each P5 conference will want a "partner conference" for the purpose of non-revs. The basketball tourney is also a major money maker that they wouldn't want to get rid of, but you can't have a 68 team bracket when you have, at most, 80 schools. They would probably not want to take along any football competitors to steal revenue, as that's what they are trying to escape from in the first place. The only likely conference partnerships that I can remember being spoken of off the top of my head are B1G/Big East, ACC/A10, Pac 12/WCC. That's not a fact, just the rumor around certain websites that I've heard.