Rank the 12 schools in value to the new league

[yorost]

You might want to consider Milwaukee's proximity to Chicago.. When I was there we used to say a third of the students were from Wisconsin, a third from Chicago, and a third everywhere else.

[lukecu]

Positioned for Long-Term Success (based on quality of local talent field, size & strength of the fan base, and their name brand)
1. Georgetown
2. Villanova
3. St. John's
4. Seton Hall
5. DePaul
6. Xavier
7. Dayton
8. Butler
9. VCU
10. Marquette
11. St. Louis
12. Creighton
13. Providence
14. Richmond

St. John's, Seton Hall, and DePaul are in such talent-laden recruiting fields, their failures on the hardwood are as much to do with the failures of their coaching staffs as anything. Put Butler's success at either of those 3 schools and their stock would go through the rough with local recruits and the media.

I tend to put more value on hardwood performance than market size, simply b/c a team that wins will attract teams. Oregon (in football) is proof of that. Duke (in basketball) is also. Being in a talent-rich recruiting field is key IMO. If you look at NBA players by state of birth, you see that NY, NJ, IL, and IN are very high. I'd like to use NBA players by State they played HS ball in, but that measure isn't available.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fri ... places.cgi

If your basing this basing this on what your saying than your completely wrong because Creighton has the largest crowds of any team in this new big east and have performed better on the hardwood than many teams a head of them. All it looks like is your basing it on is local talent. Creighton is better than St. John's, DePaul, Seton Hall, Dayton, St. Louis, and maybe VCU! You need to look at your rankings again, ask anyone on this board. Yes I am a Creighton fan but its pretty obvious that Creighton is higher than 12

[yorost]

Are you sure Creighton is typically ahead of Marquette with attendance?

[Jet915]

Are you sure Creighton is typically ahead of Marquette with attendance?

If you just count the last few years, yes. If you count the last decade, Creighton is averaging around 15k which is probably less than Marquette but I'm not sure. Either way, both teams would easily be tops in attendance in the new Big East.

[ChiFlyer]

Not sure who posted this doc, but its pretty good.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

Creighton and Marquette are both at 15k. Dayton and Georgetown come in around 12k. Xavier and Nova are at about 10k.

Its got the endowments in there as well. I think its going to be really interesting how this thing shakes out.

[thegalen]

From what the AD from Marquette stated today you'd have to re evaluate the prospective additions based on their Olympic experience and commitment to success as well as mens bball. I am not familiar with the prospective schools Olympic results so I can't post them, but it may alter who is actually the most attractive members based on their total sports programs and not just mens bball.

Williams said the Catholic Seven hope to build their conference with “schools that are committed to competitive excellence, primarily in men’s basketball, and also competitive excellence across a number of other team sports.”

Other sports that Williams said he will value highly in prospective additions to the Catholic Seven will include women’s basketball, men’s and women’s soccer and volleyball.

http://marquettetribune.org/2013/01/15/news/marquette-to-help-found-new-conference-with-catholic-seven/

Talk about burying the lede....

In recent weeks, universities such as Gonzaga, Dayton, Virginia Commonwealth and St. Louis have been reported as good fits for the Catholic Seven’s specifications. Additionally, Williams mentioned Xavier and Butler by name as particularly logical potential members.

He also did not rule out the possibility of including non-Catholic and public schools (such as Butler), as long as their athletic programs fit the bill.

“I don’t think religious affiliation, historic or current, will be determinative of someone’s fit in the conference,” Williams said. “One need not be religiously affiliated to be committed to excellence.”

Butler has never not been in the mix because of being secular. Butler is, obviously, also not public. It's inconceivable the C7 would even entertain not taking X + the Bulldogs. Read between the lines here!

Flashback to Larry Williams in December:

“On the Catholic concept… Now I’m a Catholic. I’m really comfortable in that environment, but I would be careful to define something so narrowly as to someone’s religious tradition. There’s some really good basketball played at VCU. There’s this pace down in Indiana that has made a couple appearances in the final game.”

I'm calling it now- SLU+VCU to the C7 along with Butler and X. The question is do they bring in Creighton or Dayton? Dayton is maybe the last place in America where college basketball trumps other sports, so I think Dayton fans will tune in to watch this league regardless. I know, I know, it's really not all that difficult to fly an entire baseball team to Omaha from Philly or DC, but I think people are giving seriously short shrift to what a tax this will be on the exact same Olympic sports that Williams is name checking. Lastly, I just cannot imagine that Georgetown, Nova, St. John's, Providence and Seton Hall are going to be cool with 5 East Coast/BosWash teams + Dayton by itself. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to bring Stevens' and Smarts' squads in together for a whole host of reasons. The reasons against tend to be "institutional fit!" and "religious affiliation!" and "b-b-b-ut commuter school and academics!" but those don't pass the laugh test. The C7 is going to strike while the iron is hot, and Williams clearly has his eye on the two biggest, hottest prizes.

[Pretzel]

Source: http://www.a10talk.com/2013/01/weekend- ... ired-fans/

Below are the official home attendance averages according to Atlantic10.com, team record and percentage of capacity.

1. Dayton (10-6) 12,364 – 92% capacity
2. Xavier (9-6) 9,738 – 95%
3. VCU (14-2) 7,693 – 100%
4. Butler (14-2) 6,906 – 69%
5. St. Louis (12-4) 6,380 – 60%
6. Charlotte (14-2) 5,603 – 62%
7. Temple (11-4) 4,809 – 47%
8. UMass (11-4) 4,776 – 53%
9. Richmond (11-6) 4,770 – 52%
10. St. Joseph’s (9-5) 4,064 – 97%
11. Rhode Island (5-10) 4,013 – 52%
12. St. Bonaventure (7-8) 3,834 – 70%
13. Duquesne (7-9) 3,032 – 68%
14. La Salle (11-4) 2,463 – 72%
15. Fordham (5-12) 2,061 – 59%
16. George Washington (7-8) 2,021 – 46%

[TheDon]

thegalen- great analysis. I really enjoy and appreciate a board with thought provoking discussion.

[ljay]

Williams mentioned two schools himself in that article, Xavier and Butler.

The writer took the liberty of listing the other schools mentioned.

In recent weeks, universities such as Gonzaga, Dayton, Virginia Commonwealth and St. Louis have been reported as good fits for the Catholic Seven’s specifications. Additionally, Williams mentioned Xavier and Butler by name as particularly logical potential members.

Damned funny how we have become totally used to modern journalism wherein writers/commentators/anchormen "make" the news instead of reporting the news. And we lap it up like puppy dogs.

[thegalen]

thegalen- great analysis. I really enjoy and appreciate a board with thought provoking discussion.

Thanks, same here. And just to clarify for all you Flyers out there, the only reason I think SLU gets taken ahead of Dayton is because of markets. A Cinci-Dayton MSA/DMA market merger leaves Fox, which is trying to compete nationwide as an ESPN alternative, with 11 markets for the price of 12. With that said, Fox Sports 1's going to be leading with NASCAR followed by MLB.

Dayton's up there with Richmond as a NASCAR market:

So maybe both VA and OH get FS1 statewide?
But/And, St. Louis killed it in terms of volume and share of the local market during the most recent playoffs:


All to say, that between SLU, Dayton and VCU, maybe eyeballs, and not markets, matter most here...

Also, for everyone talking about Butler and VCU once Brad or Smart leave, give this one a read:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... 0/1833795/

It's not mentioned in there, but the Smart's bought and renovated a house in Richmond and Maya and their daughter are just as deeply embedded there as Shaka is. I think both of them will be around for awhile...especially if their respective jobs become the "power conference" dream job that each of them was supposedly going to leave for the last 10 or 12 times their names have come up!