Did the Big East make a mistake adding Butler?

[Jet915]

I can't sit here and let "lack of fan support" keep getting thrown around. 7,000 fans per game for games against Detroit, UW-Green Bay, Valparaiso, Duquesne, etc. is pretty impressive when you are competing with Indiana University, Purdue University (very large, traditional family fanbases) added with Indiana State and Ball State (large alumni bases), the Indiana Pacers with several home games on the same days, Indianapolis Colts on Sundays, Notre Dame & Purdue football, IndyCar & NASCAR, and a high school basketball crazy Indianapolis region (you can find games with 2+ MAJOR D-1 recruits almost every Friday & Saturday)...man you're asking a lot for a fan base to come out to support the Dawgs vs St. Joseph's or Wright State.

Indianapolis is a much more crowded market than many medium-large metro areas. Economics of sport says you can only support so much. I think names like Georgetown, St. John's, Xavier, Villanova and Marquette will help attendance a lot.

Butler can own the market in a good season. When they came home for the Final Four in 2010 there were 30,000 fans for PRACTICEat Lucas Oil.

You can't rely on a Final 4 to boost attendance, that's not going to happen very often. When times are lean, will the fans show up? Filling a 9k arena shouldn't be too much to ask after making back to back championship game appearances but maybe we are spoiled at Creighton.

[Omahanian]

Many points well taken ButlerGuy. Put Creighton in an Indy type sports market and achieving 17,000 attendance or 12,000 or whatever is a whole lot more difficult. That being said, a packed CLink is a spectacle indeed. This league and every team in has so much potential. Can't wait. And before the other thread on visiting BE cities, it hadn't occurred to me that a Providence road trip is definitely possible for me this first season. Can't wait for that either. I realize Omaha isn't the biggest market but the Big East will own this market during basketball season. You will be the show. So I think we'll be a great destination for you from that standpoint.

[gmoser1210]

When you look at the schools in Indiana, the 16th most populous state in the 2010 census with 6.4M people, and compare it to the schools in similarly populated states, you get an idea of how much Butler has to compete with just on the collegiate level. These are the states between 5.6M and 6.8M people and the number of BCS/high major schools in those states:

13. Washington - 3

• Gonzaga (7,764 students)
• Washington (42,907 students)
• Washington State (21,016 students)

14. Massachusetts - 1

• Boston College (14,359 students)

15. Arizona - 2

• Arizona (39,236 students)
• Arizona State (59,794 students)

16. Indiana - 4

• Butler (4,667 students)
• Indiana (42,731 students)
• Notre Dame (11,733 students)
• Purdue (39,256 students)

17. Tennessee - 2

• Tennessee (27,523 students)
• Vanderbilt (12,745 students)

18. Missouri - 1

• Mizzou (34,748 students)

19. Maryland - 1

• Maryland (37,631 students)

20. Wisconsin - 2

• Wisconsin (42,595 students)
• Marquette (12,002 students)

No other similarly populated state has as many top-tier schools, and no other school in those states has as few students as Butler. Considering, I think we're doing okay, especially given the programs Butler has been competing against. Last year was the best year in Butler's history, and its home slate was nothing compared to what it will be in the Big East. They had home games against Elon, Hanover, Ball State, IUPUI, Evansville, Penn, New Orleans, Richmond, Temple, Rhode Island, St. Bonaventure, Charlotte, Duquesne, Saint Louis, and Xavier. Some decent teams, for sure, but none except Xavier even come close to the drawing power of Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, etc.

[gmoser1210]

You can't rely on a Final 4 to boost attendance, that's not going to happen very often. When times are lean, will the fans show up? Filling a 9k arena shouldn't be too much to ask after making back to back championship game appearances but maybe we are spoiled at Creighton.

Sometimes I wish Butler was in a market like Omaha where there are no major professional sports teams and only one other D1 school in the state. I love seeing Hinkle packed, but there's often too much to compete with.

[Bluejay]

You can't rely on a Final 4 to boost attendance, that's not going to happen very often. When times are lean, will the fans show up? Filling a 9k arena shouldn't be too much to ask after making back to back championship game appearances but maybe we are spoiled at Creighton.

Sometimes I wish Butler was in a market like Omaha where there are no major professional sports teams and only one other D1 school in the state. I love seeing Hinkle packed, but there's often too much to compete with.

Of course, the flip side to that coin is that Indy's population is double the size of Omaha's too....

(Blaming an NFL team for your woes is kinda weak too unless Butler plays a lot of games on Sundays....)

[gmoser1210]

(Blaming an NFL team for your woes is kinda weak too unless Butler plays a lot of games on Sundays....)

It did when it was in the Horizon, but it's not just the Colts. It's the Colts, Pacers, and nine other division one programs, including Indiana, Purdue, and Notre Dame. The others include Ball State, Indiana State, IUPUI, Valparaiso, and IPFW, which are all easy drives that take less than two hours. Not to mention high school basketball, which is almost a religion in Indiana. There's a reason Indiana has 12 of the 13 largest high school basketball arenas in the country.

[DumpsterFireA10]

Nice compilation Mr. Moser.

Did SLU get ceded to the State of Illinois?

Your points are valid though.

[gmoser1210]

I like SLU. I root for SLU (when they're not playing Butler). I went to SLU for law school and enjoy seeing them do well. I do not think they are high major, yet. When they join a high-major conference or find a way to win more than one game in the tournament (preferably on a semi-regular basis), then they will be added to the list. I'd like to see them win some games in mid-to-late March. It would make for a lot of fun in the city.

Now I suppose it's just a matter of time before the Billikens board is talking about how I'm talking smack again. They don't like me over there because I am a fan who is capable of criticizing the teams I cheer for.

[DumpsterFireA10]

Valid reasoning, although I don't agree with it I think it's fair.

So was Butler high-major last season?

[DumpsterFireA10]

SLU fans may say a little bit about not being considered major, but not much.

Good luck to your 'Dogs in the Big East.