Still hearing SLU and Dayton or Richmond in 2014

[ChicagoX]

Well actually the best available basketball only schools would include Gonzaga. So I guess we can all agree that pure basketball is not the only requirement.

While I certainly agree with you on this, I think it's obvious that geography makes it far too difficult to add Gonzaga. This isn't the case with SLU and particularly VCU.

[ChicagoX]

It is NOT a basketball-only conference. It is a non-football conference. That is annoying. They are not synonymous.

While it's true that it's not a "basketball-only" conference, men's basketball is the driving force and big money-maker, and like it or not, that is what has been the driving force in the remolding of the Big East. To FOX, non-football and basketball-only are essentially the same thing.

[BillEsq]

It is NOT a basketball-only conference. It is a non-football conference. That is annoying. They are not synonymous.

While it's true that it's not a "basketball-only" conference, men's basketball is the driving force and big money-maker, and like it or not, that is what has been the driving force in the remolding of the Big East. To FOX, non-football and basketball-only are essentially the same thing.

Not true... to Fox... it needs filler.. filler in Fall and Filler in Spring... it now has probably the only league in which has soccer teams that break even and will watch games and schools with fan bases that will potentially watch lacrosse and other sports as well. That means your lean spring seasons and open fall dates suddenly become revenue producing instead of being filled with strong man competitions from 20 years ago. There was a reason Fox signed for all sports.

[ChicagoX]

I still believe that men's basketball is the major determining factor when it comes to who has been and will be invited and who will not. From that perspective, it certainly appears to me that SLU and VCU are the best options for the conference. I believe those two schools are best positioned for future success and would make the Big East as competitive as possible.

I would be interested in hear why people think that (for men's basketball purposes) Richmond or Dayton would be better additions to the conference than VCU? Is it only because VCU is a large, state school? If they are committed to their basketball program and have no aspirations for football, I just fail to see why they wouldn't be the logical choice. They have a great coach who appears to be locked in for the time being and nice, new facilities. I think SLU is already slated to be the next team invited, so it basically comes down to who is the best option to make the conference better between VCU, UD and UR.

As a Xavier fan, I'm already thrilled with the new conference and can't wait to see the likes of Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette make visits to the Cintas Center, but I'm also of the mentality that expanding an already solid basketball conference should only be done if it will truly make it better.

[yorost]

I think we all agree basketball is driving the bus.

As for Dayton, it's fan support. We know Dayton can stink and keep its fans, but VCU's heavy support is very recent. If they unexpectedly go through 4+ poor years starting in the next year or two what happens to their fan support? If they lose it they'll be a bad addition, and only a few years ago they would never have been considered. VCU's problems lay with question marks, while Dayton we can sort of count on even if they're bad. They'll probably put up a fight, draw crowds, and make money even on their downside.

I think more and more we should add VCU, though. Shaka staying this year only helps those question marks.

[BillEsq]

I still believe that men's basketball is the major determining factor when it comes to who has been and will be invited and who will not. From that perspective, it certainly appears to me that SLU and VCU are the best options for the conference. I believe those two schools are best positioned for future success and would make the Big East as competitive as possible.

I would be interested in hear why people think that (for men's basketball purposes) Richmond or Dayton would be better additions to the conference than VCU? Is it only because VCU is a large, state school? If they are committed to their basketball program and have no aspirations for football, I just fail to see why they wouldn't be the logical choice. They have a great coach who appears to be locked in for the time being and nice, new facilities. I think SLU is already slated to be the next team invited, so it basically comes down to who is the best option to make the conference better between VCU, UD and UR.

As a Xavier fan, I'm already thrilled with the new conference and can't wait to see the likes of Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette make visits to the Cintas Center, but I'm also of the mentality that expanding an already solid basketball conference should only be done if it will truly make it better.

I agree with your assessment... and honestly i think you could give good arguments for Dayton Richmond and VCU... but since you asked about VCU.... the negatives..
1. Apparently there are some concerns about future football.
2. Their basketball success is based on dominating a weak conference. SOS since the early '90s was consistently well over 100.
3. They run what some people refer to as a gimmick defense. which is really just a poor mans press, and is has been easily beaten by any team with a point guard.
4. They as a public institution are basing all of their funding on state money and the highest student fees in the nation. If/when the student loan bubble pops/ virginia pulls back on its funding. The program might suffer.
5. They outside of one fantastic year wouldn't really be considered. (is that one year enough).

If you step out of basketball there are some other pros and cons but you wanted to focus on just basketball so i did. As i said i think you can build a decent argument for VCU which is why they are in the picture. and there are some negatives for all the teams mentioned but those are the biggest 5 points against VCU that i have seen from a basketball standpoint.

[cm5yz6]

Well actually the best available basketball only schools would include Gonzaga. So I guess we can all agree that pure basketball is not the only requirement.

While I certainly agree with you on this, I think it's obvious that geography makes it far too difficult to add Gonzaga. This isn't the case with SLU and particularly VCU.

I'm just saying that you can't be like oh geography matters, institutional fit doesn't, basketball matters, non-revs don't, recent success more important than historic performance... We just don't know. So really the fact is that they probably all matter at least a bit and the fact that they are large/public/not really the same type of universities academic/research wise is a negative against vcu and witchita (which i really can't believe people are even talking about but whatever). in my opinion, i think davidson and detrioit have better chances of getting into this conference in the long run than vcu or witchita, but hey we'll see.

[Bostonspider]

There is the ever popular FOI Act argument, which allows that the presidents want to keep all the school private and never have to worry about embarassing leaks brought on by the public schools having to release information (ala USF last year). Also there is the arguement that VCU's academics and institutional make up are too different from the 10 private, mostly catholic, mostly undergraduate schools. Whether or not that these are somewhat straw arguements does not mean the Presidents of the BE are not attuned to them. Finally there has been put forth the arguement that Georgetown just does not, for whatever reason, want VCU in the conference, and might have the political power to keep them out.

[yorost]

Whoa, now. The Big East is not primarily undergraduate universities. As a group they take undergraduate education seriously, but most are still research universities. The profs fall between the extremes of full researchers where teaching is secondary and full teachers where research is an afterthought.

There's a difference between being an undergraduate university and taking undergraduate education seriously.

VCU is a research university matching Georgetown. Richmond is in the baccalaureate classification, and would be the only university with that low of a classification if added. I think we have 4 masters level classifications (3 of them the highest level) and 6 research classifications as of now. VCU, St. Louis, Dayton, and Wichita St., I believe, are all research universities. Richmond is the one that doesn't fit in regards to research.

[Bostonspider]

I guess, I really meant undergraduate focused. I was not stating that the schools of the Big East do not have graduate programs, but rather that most of them are more focused on their undergraduate programs. Just like many of the Big East schools, Richmond does focus more of their resources on their undergraduate education, but they are not just an undergraduate university, with a school of law (ranked #53) and graduate business degrees. This seems a similar focus to Xavier, Butler, Providence, Creighton, Seton Hall and VIllanova. As to the classifications, UR was for many years (over 10) the top ranked Southern "Masters" Level school, before they were able to be reclassified as a national liberal arts university. UR felt this was more fitting as undergraduate education was their largest focus. Even a school like Marquette has twice as many undergraduate students as graduate students.