More important when adding schools? TV appeal or NCAA bids

[RUBillsFan]

Wow, you can guarantee that if Mcdermott's heart exploded today that YOUR Evansville retread would take over without missing a beat and start recruiting at the same level? Would your player of the year candidate stay if that were the case?

There are damned few programs that aren't one bad coaching decision or a few bad recruiting classes from oblivion and Creighton isn't one of them.

I can guarantee that we have 17 NCAA tourney appearances and a HISTORY of success, fan support and an administration that backs us. Can you?

I think it is safe to say that in terms of recent program success (last 15 years or so), fan support, and administration backing Creighton trumps SLU. However, I agree with BillikenRich that Creighton could not withstand a bad coaching hire or a few bad recruiting classes and maintain their current level of success. Not a big knock, there are very few programs that can.

Take a look back at the early/mid 1990s: SLU made the NIT finals in 1989 and 1990 then made back to back NCAA appearances in 1994 and 1995. They returned to the NCAAs in 1998 and 2000. SLU was among the top teams in attendance throughout the late 90s. Meanwhile Creighton had a dry spell in the 1990s not appearing in the NCAAs or the NIT from 1992 through 1997. If one were looking at the programs in 1998, there would be no question that SLU was in better shape (3 NCAAs in the last 5 years compared to zero at Creighton). What changed since then? Dana Altman was in the process of building a solid program at Creighton. Meanwhile, SLU hired Lorenzo Romar as HC to replace Charlie Spoonhour. Romar had moderate success at SLU, but jumped at his first chance to go back to his alma mater (Washington). Then SLU made a bad coaching hire (Brad Soderberg) and the program fell into a funk. Majerus worked SLU out of that funk and they are once again in a good position. SLU's coaching hire will be key to their success going forward. Greg McD has had some success at Creighton, but how much of that is thanks to Doug? Creighton was in the CIT and CBI in 2010 and 2011 under McD before Doug became a POY candidate. Who knows if McD can be successful (NCAAs most years) at Creighton without him?

The lesson is that for programs not named North Carolina, Kentucky, or Kansas, a bad coaching hire or bad recruiting classes can set the program back quite a bit. The success of a program one minute does not necessarily indicate future success. The thing that SLU has that trumps Creighton no matter what is the size of their TV market. Omaha is not going to pass the St. Louis Metro area anytime soon in terms of population. All those extra TV sets means more $ in TV revenue which is mostly what this whole thing is about.

All that being said, I think SLU & Creighton are both great programs and should be included in any new "Catholic" conference. My hope is that the BE Catholic 7 add 5 schools (SLU, Xavier, Dayon, Creighton, & Butler).

[gtmoBlue]

Actually it was Altman's last team (2010) that went to the CIT.

Creighton no longer recruits Cali heavily, replacing western recruiting with Texas, and has very Good classes for 2013 and 2014 thus far. Doesn't apear that recruiting has suffered at all.

[BE 7 Conference fan]

If you're suggesting we should consider BYU, I would listen to that argument if a western division was added. There would have to be a huge buyout for any school with football before I'd agree up take them though.

I'm not suggesting that per say, but BYU fans are definitely interested in following the happenings of a conference made up entirely of private religious schools. Plus, I'm just being proud.

Interesting.

Most of the talk about a western edge of the new conference has centered around Gonzaga, with a few references to St Marys. If BYU would be interested and realistically can keep their FB program independent, they would certainly be appealing. They have a national following due to their relatively unique tie to the LDS church and have always taken basketball pretty serious. The biggest concern, of course, would be the entire football situation and whether they can legitimately maintain independence with the new playoff structure being put into place for FBS football.

[eldermars]

Honest question, what happened to BYU's attendance last year? They were over 18K the year before and not in the Top 10 last year. Jimmer effect?

I'm assuming it was Jimmer.

Yep. Jimmer's senior year, even road games saw a sharp increase in attendance. BYU has a 22,000-seat arena, but 16K is more the typical average butts in seats.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Let me start by saying I would like to add Creighton b/c they seem to match many of the other schools (Butler, X, Nova, GT, Marq) in hoops focus and investment. But I'm seeing a lot of talk on here about how great a program Creighton has compared to an SLU or Dayton or any of the other more established programs even. And I heard it said a few times that even after McDermott leaves they are primed for long-term success. This seems to be the golden age of Creighton basketball. And for all of that success they have won exactly the same # of NCAA tourney games (1) that Depaul has won over the past decade. Forgive me for not being as optimistic. The hope for Creighton is being part of a league with more established programs that brings them national cred, exposure and $ which helps them strengthen their program. I think Butler and XU have proven they would be GREAT additions with their consistent performance on the national level. I hope if Creighton comes along they can provide as much value as they will be receiving in return. The other big reason I like Creighton is because the further West the league heads, the better. I would really like to see a Gonzaga in the league at some point down the road.

[novajoe]

xman.....Market size is extremely important.....We need both quality programs and large TV markets.....The crown jewel in this whole league in the NYC market and MSG.....It' worth a fortune in this TV deal.

[STLhoopsfan]

I think the people making this decision are fairly shrewd business-people.

Creighton and SLU are both good prospects not because of coach-name or history, but how they are positioned for success.

Creighton owns Omaha in basketball and Omaha is the hub for that region. Its a good hoops town.
SLU has a great on-campus facility, and its competition in the St. Louis metro area are in football oriented leagues.

SLU had a season ticket base of 10K+ in the late 1990's. They WILL get back to those levels in this new league and the Big East knows it....our big A-10 rivals stay on our schedule and we home games back with Creighton, Marquette, DePaul? Then throw in some marquee eastern schools? Piece of cake to sell that ticket package in St. Louis!

Mizzou may have a top 25 team, but their move to the SEC has been viewed as a step down basketball-wise from the Big 12. The syndicated Big East Basketball package will be much more popular than the SEC package in the St. Louis market. What would you rather watch? Georgetown-Villanova or Georgia-Ole Miss? I don't even want to discuss the popularity of a LaSalle-St. Bona game...

The Big East marketing and TV people are factoring in market POTENTIAL because this agreement has the potential to change the playing field in all of the affected cities!

My point made previously is being proved today in St. Louis....SLU is in first place and VCU/Xavier is on CBS, but the local CBS affiliate airs the Georgia-South Carolina game. YAWN!!!!!

Do they really think that Mizzou fans will drop everything to watch this game? SLU fans would definitely watch VCU-Xavier!

A C7+5 scenario including SLU will create must-watch hoops in St. Louis every Saturday....

[BillEsq]

STL i don't think you understand how this works... they play who they have packages to play. Plus the A-ten has a very difficult buy game deal for local affiliates. Obviously it would be better for SLU to be in the C7 and get shown on Fox but that has no real effect on whats going on now... that said GO SLU

[STLhoopsfan]

STL i don't think you understand how this works... they play who they have packages to play. Plus the A-ten has a very difficult buy game deal for local affiliates. Obviously it would be better for SLU to be in the C7 and get shown on Fox but that has no real effect on whats going on now... that said GO SLU

I understand.....but what I am saying....we can make a case for Fox that St. Louis Saturdays are ripe for the picking with SEC basketball as competition on CBS.

[BillEsq]

STL i don't think you understand how this works... they play who they have packages to play. Plus the A-ten has a very difficult buy game deal for local affiliates. Obviously it would be better for SLU to be in the C7 and get shown on Fox but that has no real effect on whats going on now... that said GO SLU

I understand.....but what I am saying....we can make a case for Fox that St. Louis Saturdays are ripe for the picking with SEC basketball as competition on CBS.

I wouldnt' worry, have you seen the pub we have been getting on Fox Midwest since the C7 thing blew up.... and they really only decided to pick up all the bills games after the C7 announcement even after hockey came back.... I think your looking at our new regional network... Plus fox is in a better position to bully charter into increased fees for Fs1 and Fs2 cause the stl market is so dependent on Fsmw. Don't worry i'd be shocked if SLU isn't it. yes stranger things have happened but were talking about a 500 mil investment.